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Lineage and getting to God, harder for sinners descendants?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by FARWALKER, May 27, 2015.

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  1. FARWALKER

    FARWALKER New Member

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    Gen 9:24-27 When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. So he said, “Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers.” He also said, Blessed be the Lord, The God of Shem; And let Canaan be his servant. “May God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem; And Canaan be his servant.”

    This was the passage we ended our Lifegroup lesson on Sunday. We discussed some conjecture about the passage and noted that Canaan would father sons and that they would then also like Canaan be enemies of God’s people for generations to come. Then a couple of days later a lady in class sent me an email with a question I will share so I may know you folks thoughts.
    :1_grouphug:

    Here is her question.
    My question is are people pre destined to having a harder time over coming evil or getting to God if they come from the line of Canaan? I always wondered between the two lines of good and evil which one we all come from and if that affects our outcome?
     
    #1 FARWALKER, May 27, 2015
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    My answer would be that GOD will bring HIS Elect to Salvation!
     
    #2 OldRegular, May 27, 2015
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No when you look at how hard a time many Jews had in coming to God and how they treated God's prophets we can see that people have an equally hard time no matter where they come from.
     
    #3 Revmitchell, May 28, 2015
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Tell the lady this:


    • In Ezekiel 18, God, Himself, tells a parable or a story. He basically says that this particular man who was good and righteous had a son. The son was horrible and sinned greatly. Then the bad son had a son and that son (the grandson of the first man) was like his grandfather - a good man. Then God says this: "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

    • Then there is Deuteronomy 24:16. "Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin."

    • Now there are verses such as Lamentations 5:7 that say this: "Our fathers sinned, and are not; And we have borne their iniquities."

    • And Deuteronomy 5:9 that says: "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me..."

    ​
    This means that the sins the fathers (and more ancestors) committed were copied and imitated by the children because they chose to be evil like their parents. The children participated in the same sins as their parents and therefore, bore the same punishment. They were not punished FOR the sins of the parents but for their own sins that they chose to continue because they hated God just like their ancestors did.

    Read all of Ezekiel 18. It should be a blessing to you.
     
    #4 Scarlett O., May 28, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Great topic, Farwalker!

    We will get sidetracked, if we debate whether our future is fixed, the view of Calvinism, or whether, we can make autonomous choices that alter the outcome of our lives.

    So if we avoid that argument, lets consider what the Bible says about when we sin, we not only hurt ourselves, but those close to us. About God "visiting" upon subsequent generations. (Exodus 20:5)
     
    #5 Van, May 29, 2015
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Consider this story: A young man comes up to an Elder and asks some serious questions about Jesus. They go to lunch and spend about an hour. The young man has many question, but seems open to the biblical answers he is receiving. They agree to meet again next week. But when next week rolls around, the young man is a no-show. Later the Elder learns that the young man has been killed in a traffic accident sometime in the week.

    So our question is this, did the sin of the drunken driver, who hit and killed that young man, contribute to him spending eternity separated from God? What does the Bible say?
     
    #6 Van, May 30, 2015
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Scarlett O, I am a little dubious of your version's translation of Deuteronomy 5:9. If you look at several translations, you will find the text actually reads, "visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children."
    Now your version, and others translate "visiting the iniquity" as punishing. But I disagree. I think the idea is sin has consequences, not only for ourselves, but for those we love. If we grow up in a house where God is rejected and even hated, we are more likely to also disrespect and ignore God's offer of salvation.

    But what is the difference between "punish" and endure the consequence? To punish conflicts with several scriptures, some of which you quoted, but to suffer the consequence of another's sin is consistent with all scripture. One clear distinction is that to suffer the consequence refers to the circumstances of our physical lives, whereas to be punished for sin refers to the torment in the afterlife. In the afterlife, God will hold each of us (if not pardoned) to account for our own sins, and not for the sins of others, such as our father.
     
    #7 Van, May 31, 2015
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