Liturgy in Baptist Churches

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Michael Wrenn, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Are there Baptist churches represented by BB members which use some kind of liturgy?

    I am much attached to small rural Baptist churches, like the kind I grew up in, but I must admit that I miss the use of liturgy -- the Book of Common Prayer -- in worship.
     
  2. 12strings

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    All churches (other than the ones that are completely spontaneous) use a liturgy...The church I grew up in followed the "Hymn-sandwich" liturgy: hymn, welcome, hymn, scripture reading & offering, hymn, special music, sermon, hymn.

    It's just that not everyone writes their liturgy down...but most follow a pattern for their services.

    I'm guessing not many Baptist churches use an actual book, since one of the driving forces of early baptists was separation from creeds and the words of men. (which I believe you know). I think this would probably include reading prayers written by other people...right or wrong, most baptist would rather make up their prayers on the spot.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Yes, I understand. But I have found that many of those "made up prayers on the spot" are remarkably similar.

    And liturgy (BCP) doesn't consist only of written prayers, plus there is opportunity for individual expressions within the liturgy.

    The Lord's Prayer is a written prayer, but most have no problem praying it.

    Also, if prayers must be made up on the spot, should not also songs? :)
     
  4. 12strings

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    True...Don Whitney's advice on praying through scripture helps a great deal with not praying the same thing every time.

    The Lord's prayer is, remember, scripture...so not the same as a prayer written by an English guy 400 years ago.

    As to songs...some churches do this in various structured and unstructured ways...some better than others...It does take a good deal of musical & poetic ability to make this even remotely nice to listen to. (examples below):

    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxm6-BJctow (chorus and poetry are planned, I beleive...the woman's interludes are spontaneous, I believe...)

    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM6DGibpb9c
    -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vej6Jq7bzPI
    (both same person...2 different songs...not saying they're great, but it's interesting to listen to)
     
  5. menageriekeeper

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    I love the Book of Common Prayer and the liturgy, but I don't expect them in my Baptist church. I go over to the Episcopal church for that.

    The Baptist churches I go to don't even use the "reponsive readings" that are (or used to be) in the back of hymnal. Have seen those used since I was a child.

    I have to agree with 12Strings on this when he says not using man made prayers is a Baptist distinctive. It's what I was always taught as a child growing up in various types of Baptist churches (that was back when they still taught bits of Baptist history in SS and "training union"). Baptists wanted to be distinctly different from the "high" churches of the Anglicans and Catholics and in doing so threw over the use of the liturgy.
     
  6. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I talked to an AMiA minister recently who said they don't use the BCP except twice a year. They are charismatic, from what I heard.

    I think not using the liturgy is a loss.

    And what you said about the responsive readings is true around here, too -- at least in the churches I'm familiar with. I've occasionally seen them used, not very often.
     
  7. USN2Pulpit

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    While we don't have a formal liturgy for our worship times, there are one or two liturgical elements that show up from time to time, although nothing like the Common Book of Prayer.

    Would "Responsive Readings" qualify as liturgical? We do that quite often.
     
  8. menageriekeeper

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    I don't know much about the AMiA. I believe there is a group here that associates with them, but not the church I attend. While I'm not attending the Episcopal church solely for the litugy, I would feel it's loss should they choose to discard it. I'm a little surprised to hear the AMiA isn't using it, but perhaps the congregation you speak of is more independent than others.
     
  9. Michael Wrenn

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    The congregations have the liberty to use it or not.

    Could you ever be Episcopalian, especially the mainline Episcopal Church, considering their stance on gay marriage and ordination?
     
  10. menageriekeeper

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    Don't know. I have my own stance on gay marriage (the gov shouldn't be in the business of saying who can marry and who can not. That should be the purvue of the churches/individuals wishing to marry) tht doesn't necessarily disagree with what I'm hearing from the national hierachy. The ordination thing bothers me. But it is also not something I'm likely to have to deal with in rural Alabama.

    Ask me this same question in 3 months time. Confirmation classes begin on the 30th. I've agreed to attend though I've been upfront that I'm not ready to leave my Baptist roots and church. That seems to be fine with the rector and the congregation. (who generally call me their resident Baptist :laugh: ) I do wonder if he's ready for some of the questions I'll be asking. :eek:
     
  11. dcorbett

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    2 Corinthians 11:3

    (KJV)

    " But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

    As far as attending church, I hold fast to the N.T church teachings.

    I can quote scripture after scripture that forbids gay unions, as many in this forum can, so I won't.

    And women preachers? The Bible specifically speaks against. But our
    local Epsicopal church has a women priest, and they conduct gay marriages. Even the local catholic church doesn't do that!
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Good luck with the confirmation classes. :)

    I am a confirmed Episcopalian and a member of a Baptist church. :) I was a member of the mainline Episcopal Church for a few years starting in the late 80's; don't think I could be again. I agree more with the AMiA, although not in the area of women in ministry; the AMiA only ordains women as deacons presently. The AMiA is trying to operate out of the ancient Celtic, relational model rather than the jurisdictional, denominational model and has more local church autonomy than the mainline Episcopal Church.
     
    #12 Michael Wrenn, Sep 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2012
  13. Oldtimer

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    That's what I thought, too, in rural NC.

    Closest town has 3 stoplights on main street. Yet, there are women pastors in some local churches. One of them is my better half's former church.

    A little differing viewpoint on gay marriage. Government once upheld blibical principles of traditional marriage. Just as it upheld the principles of thou shalt not kill. Now the government is putting a stamp of approval on both of these sins. Churches are coming into agreeing with the governmental change in stance and condoning sin, too.

    At the pace these changes are taking place, how long will it be before a pastor no longer has the freedom to read ALL of the scriptures from the pulpit? First, when churches condone gay marriage, I presume they stop reading/teaching the applicable verses to their congregations. As that comes about, the next "logical" step is for the government to label those as hate speech with resulting penalties for uttering them before a congregation.

    If I live long enough, that is something I am likely to have to deal with in rural NC. Either seeing my pastor muzzled or carted off to jail. Most likely the latter, if he's still serving our church as pastor.
     

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