Local Couple arrested for endangering newborn baby

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Joe, Jan 31, 2008.

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  1. Joe

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    Local couple arrested for endangering baby's life

    Infant found dehydrated and severely malnourished

    Wednesday, January 30, 2008

    An Auburn couple is in custody in the Placer County Jail on charges that they did not feed and properly care for their baby girl. Abraham David Mark, 49, and his wife, Monica Sue Mark, 38, were arrested Tuesday afternoon by Auburn Police officers and charged with one count each of felony cruelty to a child.

    Sgt. Victor Pecoraro said a special allegation will be added to the charges because the victim was under 5 years of age.

    The couple's 8-week-old baby girl was found by Placer County Child Protective Services to be dehydrated and severely malnourished, Pecoraro said.

    "We got involved and did the criminal investigation," he said. "The baby is out of the hospital now and is in the custody of the county."

    He said the baby lost about two pounds since her birth.

    "She was in the 4-pound range and her skin was very loose," Pecoraro said. "She was emaciated."

    The Marks were arrested Tuesday afternoon at their Racetrack Street apartment. Both are being held on $250,000 bail each.


    http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2008/01/30/news/top_stories/05endanderedbaby30.txt

    What do you think? The ages are incorrect. Both are10 years younger than listed.
     
  2. cowboymatt

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    What do I think? I think that this is horrible and that those parents should get whatever's coming to them!
     
  3. bapmom

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    I don't understand why you wonder what anyone thinks about this....

    I think "feed your baby"

    and if your baby won't eat (which sometimes happens with newborns), then get help very very quickly
     
  4. Joe

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    Do I know you?

    I don't understand your negative post....
     
  5. bapmom

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    not negative, just wondering.

    unfortunately there are neglect cases all over the country each day. I'm wondering what in particular you wanted to discuss about this one?
     
  6. Joe

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    I never stated there was anything in particular I wanted to discuss.
    Also not sure why you ask right up front what my reasons are for posting.
    With all due respect, unless you are interested in the topic of my thread, please move on. Thanks
     
    #6 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
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  7. Gayla

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    I agree with bapmom. Feed your baby. Or get some help if the baby won't eat.

    Joe, how do you know the ages of the couple are 10 years off?
     
  8. Joe

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    A Placer County Sheriff Detective told me.
    A close friend of mine also said she isn't that old. He has known her for years.
     
    #8 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
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  9. annsni

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    That's so sad but it's also a huge possibility with some parents. I came home with my first child trying to nurse her and the hospital staff told me I was doing great - even the lactation consultant. I knew she wasn't nursing well and I was worried. The day after I came home from the hospital, I called and begged the La Leche League leader to please come to my house to see what we're doing wrong and she said as soon as she walked in "Get a bottle. That baby is dehydrated!" Wow! How was I to know?? Even with all the work we did, she ended up bottlefed because she couldn't nurse. I wonder how long it would have taken to figure out that she was not nursing well if that lady hadn't have come.

    If a new mom doesn't follow the doctor's advice and come in for checkups, then a baby can slip through the cracks. Also, some moms just don't read much and wing it instead and they make some major mistakes. I spoke to a mom 2 weeks ago who had her 5 month old in the infant seat and it was obvious he had outgrown it. I asked her how big he was and she said "He's 22 lbs now! He's so big I had to turn the seat around!" She was speaking of the rear-facing only infant seat! I showed her on the side of the seat where it is not to be installed that way and at her son's size, he needed to go into a new seat. She asked "what do I get him??" and I gave her some guidance. I also printed out for her why they recommend babies stay rear facing for atleast one year old and 20 lbs. She had no idea. Oh - and this was her second child so she's not a new mom.

    I'd first wonder if this baby had some kind of metabolic disorder that would cause this to happen - but the only excuse for that would be if the baby were under a doctor's care and they knew what was going on. For a healthy baby to not gain weight but to lose 2 lbs. in 8 weeks is just wrong. But then again, some parents are clueless. What this might have done to the baby's brain, they won't know for a long time but I'm sure there will be long term damage if this was truly malnutrition and dehydration.

    It makes me just want to take him and care for him and love him. How sad.
     
  10. Joe

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    I can understand what you are saying Annsni. It's really easy to have a breakdown or have your emotional state to be so whacked you don't know what you are doing. I still have a hard time forgiving myself for what I did to our son when he was a newborn. It certainly contributed to the decision not to have any more children.

    We were mentally exhausted taking care of our newborn, especially my wife. I went to work on maybe a few hours of sleep for weeks. The baby cried and cried. We took him to the Doctor over and over, and the Doctor did nothing. He would say he is fine, just keep breastfeeding. Gave us a pump. Despite our concerns, he said my wife was producing milk if she had trickles of white coming out when using the breast pump. But she didn't get more than a few drops and kept it on her breast for like a half hour. We made more Doctor appointments, told the Doc she wasn't producing milk. Only got a few tablespoons but he said when the baby sucked, it was different. He said baby was getting enough milk. When the baby sucked hard, he wasn't getting anything. He would put his mouth on her nipple, start to suck, then let go abruptly screaming in fury.
    The Doc convinced us differently, saying we were tired, and needed rest. My wife and baby were cramping up really bad in their stomaches. She would hunch over in pain, baby did the same thing. She told the Doc she felt they both had the same medical problem. He again, dismissed it.

    I almost lost my job due to so many absences. My wife was so tired she started hallucinating after about 5 weeks from the lack of rest. She called my job leaving a message that the dresser was coming at her. She knew she was hallucinating at the time, but it still scared her because it seemed so real. She could barely walk, would hold onto the walls because the floor felt like it was moving. She wouldn't let herself fall asleep in between the baby's rest, he woke up every half hour crying to nurse but it did not good. She felt he was sick and he was dying. She wasn't too far off with her insights. She walked around bare-chested as her nipples felt like someone was rubbing sand paper on them. They were so swollen up. She took many cold showers. She held her chest everywhere she went, so of course, it was hard to hold the baby at the same time. A bra was painful. Her nipples looked like little balls, all swollen up and blue. The baby cried all night, she cried lightly and constantly, it was awful. She weighed maybe 115 lbs, lost about 10 lbs during this time. She is 5 ft 7, and already to thin.

    The Doctor told her (by phone) her breasts were sore from nursing. He didn't want to see her though she kept asking and telling him they were swollen up. All Doctors here were so busy at the time due to the sudden population growth. We couldn't get in anywhere.

    Finally, we went to the County (though we didn't financially qualify) and begged a nurse walking by to look at our newborn and we would pay her a few hundred dollars under the table. And pay a Doctor under the table if she could find one.

    It took her less than a minute to diagnose the problem. She opened his mouth and said he had thrush (Yeast). Thrush looks like milk, but more curdled on the babies tongue. When the nurse heard he was born weighing almost 9 lbs and now weighed only 5 lbs, (8 weeks later) she grabbed a Doctor walking by. He brought us right in. He gave us amoxicillin for the baby and my wife. She had invisible thrush on her nipples and in her bloodstream. Thrush is yeast, she had given birth while having a yeast infection.
    The Doctor looked shocked when she suddenly flashed him. She was afraid to ask if he would see her, she didn't want to hear no because she hurt. Her nipples looked deformed, he was shocked at how swollen they were. She put the medication on right there in the room, it immediate relieved the symptoms so it didn't feel like scratch paper. The swollenness started going down immediately during the drive home. Baby calmed down immediately when it was rubbed on his gums and mouth, as the stinging ceased. I don't know if in our mental state we even realized the baby lost weight. We were so tired. The Doctor said to get some formula and mix with rice cereal for the baby needed to gain weight.

    We fed him rice cereal when we got home. He could now eat without pain, then slept for hours. So did we. Then we put him on solid foods and formula because he kept throwing up the formula. The experts say they can't survive on only one bottle of formula a day at 8 weeks combined with jar baby food but he survived just fine. Even ate the meat jar food at about 8 1/2 weeks. Peas, pears, bananas etc..He ate like a pig, got fat really quick so we had to slow it down when he doubled his weight so soon.
    He's 16 and our only child. He's very healthy except for allergies. Thank God for that Doctor.

    I still don't care to babysit little babies for fear they could be dying right in front of me. Sorry the story is so long...
     
    #10 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
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  11. annsni

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    Oh my goodness Joe!! That's absolutely atrocious!! That is why I tell EVERY new mom to have the lactation consultant's number next to their phone and to GO if they even suspect an issue. I had my LC weigh my son before I nursed then weighted him afterwards to find out how much he was taking in and then helped me to figure out why he was not nursing long enough. That $150 that we paid for the visit, the rental of the breast pump and the following consults was beyond worth it just because I ended up exlusively breastfeeding him for 20 months and he was a chunk! I didn't have to pay the hundreds for formula and I was able to stop any horrible issues before they happened.

    Do you know how much breastfeeding teaching the doctors get in medical school? About one hour. That's it. Unless a doctor is looking for information himself/herself, he's not going to get it from anyplace and he'll continue in ignorance. And poor mothers who have NO help and NO assistance - and doctors who are completely ignorant in breastfeeding information - equals situation like your wife experienced. A hundred years ago, grandma, great grandma, aunts, cousins and neighbors all nursed and babies were able to get through it. Now it's so rare to find a good support group when nursing so many mothers are on their own.

    I'm so glad your son ended up doing well. How scary that must have been for you guys!! It just goes to show, it's not just abusive parents who have babies with problems.
     
  12. Joe

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    Yes, I hear the longer you breastfeed, the healthier the child. Less diseases in life. Good for you! It's a hassle, but worth it.

    Wow, just 1 hour training in breastfeeding :eek:
    We were turning 20 years old (only a few months apart) , we were ignorant. It wasn't just the Doctors fault.

    There are some long term health issues that remain. Because her nipples were so swollen big for so long, one remains larger than the other and is permanently damaged. It is constantly tender, and feels like it's padded because I guess the swelling never really went down completely. Still looks swollen. The blood vessels inside are damaged, and there are a few visible tiny blue lines if you look close. Blood vessels I guess. It is uncomfortable and hurts her sometimes, that is the hardest part.
    She is suppose to be getting breast exams to rule out cancer, but is too self-conscious. Avoids breast exams and pap smears (they go hand in hand with the physical) When our good friend had a practice, she went to him (he's a GP) but he retired like 6 years ago.

    Her OB said he thought she didn't have enough skin on her nipples to start with, they have always been really soft and tender. I noticed that too.

    That's a great service you do helping the new moms. You're their angel, you probably have no idea of the impact. In ensuring they breastfeed properly, you may be preventing long term health issues :1_grouphug:
     
    #12 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
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  13. annsni

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    Joe - Encourage your wife to go for the tests. They could save her life. I had a bad case of mastitis with my last baby and was given the wrong medication by my regular doctor and it got worse. It ended up going sceptic (blood poisoning) and I was SO sick (105 fever). I went to the hospital and got under the care of an awesome breast surgeon and have now been seeing him for coming up on 5 years. I go every 6 months for an ultrasound and mamogram (although I was just cleared to make it 9 months) because he said, if I was going to have a problem, that's where it's going to be. I also had a lot of damage (ductal damage although I did go on to nurse her to 23 months), and it's just not worth getting icked out on. I lost my mom to breast cancer 9 years ago and I know what being agressive on an early-caught cancer can do. So I'd tell you to encourage her to go. It's worth it.
     
  14. bapmom

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    I'm sorry that something I said obviously offended you. I did not intend so.

    Like I said, I was just curious what had struck you as unique about this case. In my experience with the News/Current Events board there is usually some reason the poster has posted his thread - something he wants to discuss. I wanted to enter in, that's all. Now I understand why the story caught your eye - but that's all you had to say. There's no need to be so suspicious and abrupt. So often I take a break from the BB and when I come back I am immediately reminded as to why I took a break.


    Annsi,

    I had some nursing problems with four of our six kids as well. Each time they had some sort of problem where they just weren't getting what they needed, and then the baby gets so weak from lack of food that he can no longer nurse effectively and it can very quickly become a vicious cycle. We so often think of nursing as such a natural process that it's easy to think that it should be easy.....it should just come natural. The mom who is having problems can feel inadequate because it's "supposed to be easy" and then she is afraid to ask for help. But even though it is natural, that doesn't mean it is easy, and that doesn't mean serious problems can't arise once mom gets home with the baby. She's in a different environment, with more distractions at home, and things can devolve very quickly.

    If your baby is frustrated during or after nursing, don't hesitate! Get help from someone, and don't be afraid to ask for a second or third opinion. With all four of my 'problem nursers' I bottle-fed for awhile until they got stronger, and then switched them right back to nursing (gradually) and they went on to be full-time nursers until at least a year old. But if they had remained bottle-fed they still would have been ok, ya know?

    Thing is, in today's climate - especially in California where half of my kids were born - there's so much more help out there available. Sixteen years ago things were radically different. My first child was born 13 years ago, and just since then there has been so much more help made available for nursing moms. Nursing is a big focus now, they almost encourage nursing too much - sometimes I've heard of Moms who choose the bottle being scoffed at for it. In the hospital they don't let you leave until they see how the baby is nursing. They give you all sorts of numbers to call, and I've even had phone calls. Plus, after having several who had troubles, I knew right away with our last one that there was another problem so I took her right in.


    Thing is, there's really no indication in the article of whether any of this discussion is relevant to the news story. With there being more help now I wonder why they didn't take advantage of it.
     
    #14 bapmom, Feb 1, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  15. annsni

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    Bapmom - I think it depends on where you live because I know a LOT of areas still don't have much help. Here in NY at my hospital, they have a lactation consultant on staff but she's just one woman. If you happen to deliver over the weekend, she's not there. They also have a nursing support group that meets twice a week but not everyone can make it or feels comfortable going. It's a matter of being proactive rather than having someone else spoon-feeding you the information around here. Although I think with Joanna, my last child (she's now 5), I had a county nurse come to the house a week after she was born to see how things were going. I'm not big on government interferance but that would atleast have been a way for that baby to have been seen early on and to see how his weight was and if he were doing OK. Also, my pediatrician had me come in 2 days after my hospital release, then a week later and once each week until the baby was back to birth weight (all my babies would take 3 weeks to get back to birth weight for some reason).

    But more than anything else, this is where community should come in to help. Neighbors, friends, family - but there ARE some families who isolate themselves and do what they feel is best even if it's not. I remember there was a family here in NY, I think, who were vegans and felt that it was wrong for their baby to have breastmilk - that it was unhealthy. Instead they made a milk of some kind of beans and vegetables and gave that to the baby instead. It was horrible and the baby was so malnourished that he had permanent brain damage. Maybe if that family had proper instruction on baby nutrition, they might have chosen a different way but I think there are also some parents out there who are mentally ill and will not listen. Every stop-gap in the world won't save every child. No matter what, someone will slip through the cracks because of our constitutional freedoms.
     
  16. Joe

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    Thank you for that.
    Huh, I thought you just apologized? :confused:
    You entered the thread with a bang blirting out a question of why I posted my thread without even saying hello to me. I don't know you.
    You then apologize
    And in the same breath, suddenly you call me abrupt and suspicious.

    So.... now you now are reminded upon why you take these breaks from the BB?

    Maybe you are a nice person. I haven't had the privilege to find out yet. You haven't allowed it. All I see is cold and hot in each of your threads, complaints, personal questions, without even a simple hello.

    Ann works with new moms, so I felt it was best to tell her our story so she can use it to maybe help other new moms. It's certainly not something I would normally post online, and my history is not the reason why I posted the story.


    If you can't stand not asking a question (I am that way so I relate) here is an example of how to go about it.
    Hi Joe

    This is an interesting thread. With so many child abuse cases across the country, I wondered why you were posting this one? I realize this is a message board, and we all must be safe to protect our identity when online, so if your answer could reveal anything about you or anything you are uncomfortable with, then feel free to pass on it. This is my first communication with you, yet I am coming forward with a personal question right up front. I have a hard time entering discussions like everyone else, so I wondered if there was anything particular you wanted to talk about. Might help me break the ice. Thanks

    Btw, my name is Bapmom :)
     
  17. Joe

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    Hi Ann
    I looked up mastitis- ouch, that must have hurt. You poor thing :saint:

    This means you have to keep seeing this breast surgeon because of the past mastitis to rule out cancer? Every six months seems very frequent.
    If it's ok to ask, what happened exactly? did the milk go into your bloodstream because you were gorged and swollen so it had nowhere else to go? So it poisoned your system causing you now to be more likely to get breast cancer from it? (and because your mother had it). Are you uncomfortable sometimes still?
    I might look that up online. With almost all health problems there is probably a certain diet you should be following, or some foods you should be avoiding.

    I don't eat too much sugar because I have a yeast imbalance. My wife used to get yeast infections but she changed her diet and she doesn't even get them when she is on antibiotics.

    Glad your bad experience is being used to help others.
     
    #17 Joe, Feb 1, 2008
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  18. bapmom

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    I remembered you from having been around the board for the last 2 and a half years - I didn't know I had to introduce myself.

    Like I said, I didn't mean to sound like a 'bang blurt out' question - it was just me wondering.


    I don't actually have a hard time entering into discussions - forgive me if I'm taking you wrong, but when you asked if I knew you that sounded like you were saying I can't comment on here unless you know who I am. Then you make a thinly veiled attempt to tell me I don't know how to enter into a conversation. I've not been as active on the BB in the last several months, but I didn't think everyone would have forgotten me. I didn't forget most of you.


    I still don't see how my initial asking you what about the story you thought was unique is a personal, ambiguous, insulting or leading question. There are tragically thousands of these cases all across the country each day. I don't know that this particular story even had anything to do with a mom not knowing how to nurse her baby. Maybe she was a bottle-feeder, the story doesn't say. I think we do need to lend more support to moms in this area - I think it would be great if churches had some kind of nursing/baby care support groups (for lack of a better term).

    How did no one else in her circle see what was going on in those 8 weeks? I had a baby born at 6lbs and some ounces, and he went down to 5lbs in two weeks, and it was definitely noticeable to those around me - although it was so gradual to me that I had to consciously notice it. Now I was under a doctor's care, otherwise the ladies in my church would have taken some kind of action - taken me aside and asked what was going on and gotten me situated properly. I can't imagine what a baby would look like at 4lbs, like this child. But no one else noticed for 8 weeks? Makes me think they had holed up in their house. The parents need to get some help, still. There's something wrong with their thinking.

    I wish there were more people who were proactive that way - maybe we should all look around at the young moms we know and do our best to help them a little more. Maybe we should approach them more.

    ~edited at least 5 times~
     
    #18 bapmom, Feb 1, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  19. Joe

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    duplicate post
     
    #19 Joe, Feb 1, 2008
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  20. Joe

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    I joined around Christmas 2006 and didn't start posting or getting into the BB some months later. I have been active on the BB for almost a year I believe.
    Ok. No problem.
    Just would have appreciated a Hi Joe before the first sentence questioning my reasons or motives for my post, that's all.[/QUOTE]
    In reading your post, I thought that is what you told me as a reason for your abrupt opening post. I am sorry, that was my mistake. I misunderstood. I do not think you have a hard time entering discussion, but I know I had that experience when I first joined the BB
    I don't think you knew me, nor do I know you so there was likely no forgetting of one another imo. I could be wrong.
    Your first sentences were not worded that way imo. If you still cannot understand, then I can't do much more. Let's drop it ok
    I don't think anyone stated the story had anything to do with a Mom not knowing how to nurse her baby. It went that direction though.
    Yeah, she could have bottle fed. That's a great idea, I don't know of any churches which have that resource except Ann's.
    I don't know how anyone couldn't have noticed, but it doesn't surprise me. Sounds like you were more mentally equipped to have a baby, and probably had a mature set of friends looking out for you.
    We brought our baby to our Lamaz reunion at about 6 weeks. He was the largest baby born yet the smallest one in the picture with all of the other babies. It was obvious he was little, but no one asked us, though we did say we were having a really hard time. Most of our friends at the time were our age (around 20) and in College so they didn't know much about breastfeeding. Seemed uncomfortable when my wife would discreetly breastfeed in front of them. Many of them left about that time so we made friends with older couples in a Mom's group some months later.
    Yes, I agree. There is something wrong with their thinking. Except they brought their baby to it's 6 week Dr's appointment so I don't believe they were trying to harm their child. I hear they both are "a little slow" yet they are very nice people.
    Very good advice. I agree.
    We joined a mom's group of about 100 families when our son almost 1 year old. We were both very active until he entered kindergarten when most of the families drop out. Made a ton of friends, most were at least 10 years older, wealthy professionals who moved from the Bay Area to obtain a nicer home for 1/4 the cost. We learned how to parent though watching them. They kept my new business afloat during a recession, we advertised for $4 a month in their newsletter. We traded babysitting with a few of them who lived nearby. To this day, a few of the couples are still good friends of ours.

    If we had joined while she was pregnant, someone with knowledge would have brought us a meal and helped us out. All the mom's were very helpful and inquisitive with pregnant and new mothers, always inquiring upon breastfeeding.

    I headed the meals on wheels for new mothers and helped with the holiday parties. Usually talked to them about breastfeeding to surmise whether to send another mom to their home. One lady didn't produce enough milk, something I had suspected was happening so another Mom got her baby on a bottle (she was also a nurse before giving birth). Helped me ease my guilt for screwing up so badly with my own son. Still keep a few of their brochures in my truck, copy them, and hand them out to pregnant mothers when I have dealings with them through business or whatever.
     
    #20 Joe, Feb 1, 2008
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