Long-Distance Ordination

Bill,

Good question! :thumbs:

 

1. Biblical ordination, IMO, should be once and transferable to every pastorate. However, if the pastor leaves the Baptist denomination and goes to the Presbyterian, then they would require for him to be ordained in there---sounds fair to me!

2. BTW, What is involved in Biblical Ordination? Is it valid at all?

 

==They can't (1Tim 3:10, 5:22).

Getting an online education is one thing, trying to be qualified for ministry online is something totally different. Having a degree does not mean one is qualified for any ministry position. Having ordination means that one is ready for the ministry, it is a type of endorsement for the ministry. When someone goes online to get ordained, from a group they have never met (and visa versa), I think there is something wrong. Why can't they get their local church to ordain them? So I would not view online ordination as real ordination.

 

Broadus:

I didn't realize you were in SC -- Hello from right down the road!

I don't generally disagree with your observations. I would note that one of the greatest evangelists in American (& Church) history was D.L. Moody -- who was never ordained by any church. I believe his annointing as an evangelist speaks for itself.

I would also say that, in light of the example of Moody, sometimes the recognition of The Body of Christ (the universal Church) or some segment thereof is as valid as recognition and confirmation of a calling in the setting of a local church.

I don't want to rile a bunch of Baptist Only" folks, but history tends to affirm that...

JDale

 

Forgive me, SR. I was trying to understand where you were coming from -- I was not trying to label you. My apologies.

JDale

 

If you will refer to my previous post in which I specifically explain and answer these misconceptions and myths (at least in the case of the fellowship of which I am a part) I think you might be less likely to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

JDale

 

==I am not aware of a church denying ordination to someone because they have a small, "minute", difference on doctrine. In fact, I would argue that nobody agrees with everyone on every point. My point, and I refer you back to what I said, is that people who know nothing about a person are not in a position to ordain them to the ministry. Period. We should never, and I mean never, lay hands on someone for the ministry if we know little to nothing about them (1Tim 3:10, 5:22).

The issue of ordination and whether it should be part of the Baptist church is a issue I am not going to get into here. Here I am coming from the perspective that it is Biblical and that it should be part of the Baptist church. Laying hands on someone and sending them into the ministry is not something that can, or should, be done through the mail.

So, on this, I will gladly throw the baby out with the bathwater. Laying on of hands, ordination, should only be done by those who know the candidate and are in a position of leadership in that candidate's church.

 

If you're ever my way, let me know so we can visit.

Moody is an exception to the rule, as was G. Campbell Morgan, if my fading memory is correct. My concern, though, is that if the call to the ministry is reduced to one's own subjective understanding of one's call, then anything goes. As a matter of fact, it is the argument that practicing homosexuals use for being "called" to the gospel ministry. Their argument goes, "If God has called me, who are you to question what I know is real in my heart?"

Again, I do not believe the NT allows for women elders, but they use the same argument.

Now, understand that I am not implying that you are not called, nor am I putting you in the same league as homosexuals! The older I've gotten, however, the more I am concerned that we have lost something about the biblical requirements for ministers and the value of ordination. BTW, my PhD (church history) dissertation at SBTS examined how Baptists historically viewed the gospel ministry, including the call and ordination, from the English Separatists of the late 16th century to the SBC of the early 20th century. Our forebears would have been greatly concerned about our 21st-century individualism.

Blessings,
Bill

 

:laugh:

DL Moody would be disappointed -- but no less annointed.

As I explained before -- the fellowship that granted my credentials DID NOT operate solely through the mail without ANY personal contact. I was sponsored by a member who is a personal friend, examined by a board including two other ministers, given a written examination, required to provide four references who had observed my ministry over a long period of time, etc...

On the other hand, in my years of denominational ministry, I have seen local church (or associational) ordaining councils lay hands on men they knew were unqualified, morally compromised, of questionable doctrinal knowledge or philosophy, etc. The reason that happened was because the Local Church in those cases was not following the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but playing the political games of men.

Let me further pose this question to you Martin -- and I will use myself as the "target." I am a "Reformation Arminian," but I am also a member of a Southern Baptist Church. As a Reformation Arminian, I question the "unconditional perseverance of the saints," rather positing the "possibility of apostasy." That is really the only difference I have with the Southern Baptist Church. If I were a member of your church, and you'd known me for years, would you consider me a candidate for ordination?

Blessings,

JDale

 

Ann,

Thanks for sharing. Seminary is not for everyone, and your church has evidently provided a good alternative.

DH?

Bill

 

Hi Broadus -- good observations. I tend to agree, but within my personal experience, politics certainly played a role (but I saw this in IFB and FWB circles, not so much in the SBC).

I certainly agree though -- many times those doing the ordaining have no clue the "weight" and importance of their task.

JDale

 

Annsni:

I rejoice at the experience and training your husband received in preparation for ministry. I think it's ideal for preparing a Pastor. I say that as a College professor, having taught young people in preparation for ministry. I think it is a mistake to "require" a college or seminary education as a qualification for ministry -- on the other hand, I think if one CAN go to college and/or seminary, they ought to.

Blessings,

JDale