Longer Tribulation Period?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Lacy Evans, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Why did the teaching of a longer trib fall out of consideration?

    From:
    http://www.kingdombaptist.org/article599.cfm

    There are many scriptural difficulties that are resolved by a longer period between the rapture and the second coming. Ezekiel 29:10 Ezekiel 32:7

    Lacy
     
  2. Michael Hobbs

    Michael Hobbs
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    Lacy,
    If you think about it, I believe that a short time period makes sense. With the Church (the body of Christ) raptured up into Heaven and the Holy Spirit taken out of the way (2 Thes. 2:7), there is nothing to fight against the forces of Satan here on earth. Plus, we see God sends a strong delusion upon the unbelievers that they will gladly accept the Antichrist and allow him to quickly set up his dominion.

    Look at the book of Revelation.
    In chapters 2-3, we see the 7 churches that represent the 'Church age'.
    In chapter 4, we see the rapture and the throne of God.
    In chapter 5, we see that Jesus is the only one worthy to open the seals.
    And finally, in chapter 6, we see the start of the 70th week of Daniel, the tribulation period.

    Now, how long of a time period between the rapture and the tribulation, I do not believe the Bible tells us. But I do believe it will be a short period of time.
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Thanks Michael,

    I still have a problem with what to do with many prophecies that would not be possible in just 7 years. For example:

    These prophecies concerning Egypt have not been fulfilled. They seem very much to have language consistent with other tribulation prophesy. And there is more.

    Lacy
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
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    This prophecy is very much in the past.

    Read Is.13, is that in the future as well?
     
  5. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Show me a time in Egypt's history where neither man nor beast could step foot there for 40 years. Short of some chemical/biological/nuclear/ attack, I can't even imagine such a thing. I expect literal fulfillments to prophesy.

    Lacy
     
  6. Phillip

    Phillip
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    Nuclear, Lacy, dirty nukes, probably rigged up by terrorists, leaving fall-out that has medium half-lifes (approx. 1 to 2 years). (How does the saying go: You just can't ask me how I know or I'd have to kill you.) [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
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    I'll let theologians answer the question:


    The 1599 Geneva Study Bible

    Chapter 29
    29:1 In the a tenth year, in the tenth [month], in the twelfth [day] of the month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

    (a) That is, of the captivity of Jeconiah, or of the reign of Zedekiah. Of the order of these prophecies, and how the former sometimes stands after the latter. See Jeremiah 27:1

    29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great b dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river [is] my own, and I have made [it] for myself.

    (b) He compares Pharaoh to a dragon which hides himself in the Nile river, as in Isaiah 51:9

    29:4 But I will put c hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick to thy scales, and I will bring thee out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick to thy scales.

    (c) I will send enemies against you who will pluck you and your people which trust in you out of your sure places.

    29:6 And all the inhabitants of Egypt shall know that I [am] the LORD, because they have been a staff of d reed to the house of Israel.

    (d) Read 2 Kings 18:21

    29:7 When they took hold of thee by thy hand, thou didst break, and tear all their shoulder: and when they leaned upon thee, thou didst break, and make all their inward parts to e shake.

    (e) When you felt their hurt, they would stay no more on you, but stood on their feet and put their trust in others.

    29:9 And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD: because he hath said, f The river [is] mine, and I have made [it].

    (f) Thus God cannot permit man to attribute anything to himself or put his trust in anything save in him alone.

    29:14 And I will bring again the captives of Egypt, and will cause them to return [into] the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a g base kingdom.

    (g) Meaning, that they would not have full dominion but be under the Persians, Greeks and Romans, and the reason is that the Israelites would no more put their trust in them, but learn to depend on God.

    29:16 And it shall be no more the confidence of the house of Israel, which bringeth [their] h iniquity to remembrance, when they shall look after them: but they shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.

    (h) Lest I should by this means punish their sins.

    29:17 And it came to pass in the i seven and twentieth year, in the first [month], in the first [day] of the month, the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
    (i) Counting from the captivity of Jeconiah.

    29:18 Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great k service against Tyre: every head [was] made bald, and every shoulder [was] rubbed raw: yet had he no wages, l nor his army, for Tyre, for the service that he had served against it:

    (k) He took great pains at the siege of Tyre and his army was sore handled.

    (l) Signifying that Nebuchadnezzar had more pains than profit by the taking of Tyre.


    Great Baptist Theologian John Gill says:

    Ezekiel 29:11
    No foot of man shall pass through it…

    This must be understood not strictly, but with some limitation; it cannot be thought that Egypt was so depopulated as that there should not be a single passenger in it; but that there should be few inhabitants in it, or that there should be scarce any that should come into it for traffic; it should not be frequented as it had been at least there should be very few that travelled in it, in comparison of what had: no foot of beast shall pass through it:
    no droves of sheep and oxen, and such like useful cattle, only beasts of prey should dwell in it:

    neither shall it be inhabited forty years:
    afterwards,
    , a prophecy is given out concerning the destruction of it by Nebuchadnezzar, which was in the twenty seventh year, that is, of Jeconiah's captivity; now allowing three years for the fulfilment of that prophecy, or forty years, a round number put for forty three years, they will end about the time that Cyrus conquered Babylon, at which time the seventy years' captivity of the Jews ended; and very likely the captivity of the Egyptians also. The Jews pretend to give a reason why Egypt lay waste just forty years, because the famine, signified in Pharaoh's dream, was to have lasted, as they make it out, forty two years; whereas, according to them, it continued only two years; and, instead of the other forty years of famine, Egypt must be forty years uninhabited: this is mentioned both by Jarchi and Kimchi.


    The 1599 Geneva Study Bible
    Chapter 32

    32:1 And it came to pass in the a twelfth year, in the twelfth month, in the first [day] of the month, [that] the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
    (a) Which was the first year of the general captivity under Zedekiah.

    32:2 Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say to him, Thou art like a young b lion of the nations, and thou [art] as a whale in the seas: and thou didst come forth with thy rivers, and didst c trouble the waters with thy feet, and didst foul their rivers.
    (b) Thus the scriptures compare tyrants to cruel and huge beasts which devour all that are weaker than they and such as they may overcome.
    (c) You prepared great armies.

    32:5 And I will lay thy flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys d with thy height.
    (d) With heaps of the carcass of your army.

    32:6 I will also water with thy blood the land in which thou e swimmest, [even] to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of thee.
    (e) As the Nile overflows in Egypt, so will I make the blood of your host overflow it.

    32:7 And when I shall f put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
    (f) The word signifies to be put out as a candle is put out.

    32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set g darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.
    (g) By this manner of speech is meant the great sorrow that will be for the slaughter of the king and his people.

    32:12 By the swords of the mighty will I cause thy multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall lay waste the h pomp of Egypt, and all its multitude shall be destroyed.
    (h) This came to pass in less than four years after this prophecy.

    32:14 Then will I make i their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord GOD.
    (i) That is, of the Chaldeans your enemies, who will quietly enjoy all your conveniences.

    32:18 Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and k cast them down, [even] her, and the daughters of the famous nations, to the lower parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.

    (k) That is, prophecy that they will be cast down: thus the Lord gives his prophets power both to plant and to destroy by his word, read

    32:19 Whom dost thou pass l in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised.
    (l) Have not other kingdoms more beautiful than you perished?

    32:20 They shall fall in the midst of [them that are] slain by the sword: m she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes.
    (m) That is, Egypt.

    32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to n him out of the midst of the grave with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

    (n) To make the matter more sensible, he brings in Pharaoh whom the dead will meet and marvel at him, read (Isaiah 14:9

    32:24 There [is] o Elam and all her multitude around her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, who are gone down uncircumcised into the lower parts of the earth, who caused their terror in the land of the p living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.
    (o) Meaning the Persians.
    (p) Whom in his life all the world feared.

    32:26 There [is] q Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves [are] around him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living.
    (q) That is, the Capadocians and Italians or Spaniards, as Josephus writes.

    32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty [that are] fallen r of the uncircumcised, who are gone down to the grave with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though [they were] the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.
    (r) Who died not by cruel death but by the course of nature, and are honourably buried with their coat of armour and signs of honour.

    32:30 There [are] the princes of the s north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, who are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with [them that are] slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.
    (s) The kings of Babylon.

    32:31 Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be t comforted over all his multitude, [even] Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD.
    (t) As the wicked rejoice when they see others partakers of their miseries.

    32:32 For I have caused my u terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with [them that are] slain with the sword, [even] Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.
    (u) I will make the Egyptians afraid of me, as they caused others to fear them.

    John Gill

    Ezekiel 32:7
    And when I shall put thee out…
    As a candle is put out, or some great light or blazing torch is extinguished; such was the king of Egypt in his splendour and glory; but now should be like a lamp put out in obscure darkness, and all his brightness and glory removed from him, : I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark;
    with the smoke that should arise at the extinguishing of this lamp; or they should be covered with mourning, or clad in black, at the destruction of this monarch and his monarchy: I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her
    light;
    all which figures are sometimes made use of to denote the dissolution of kingdoms and states: the "heaven" being an emblem of a kingdom itself; the "sun" of an emperor or king, or kingly power; the "moon" of the queen, or of the priesthood; the "stars" of nobles, princes, counsellors, and such like eminent persons, useful in government; who being destroyed or removed, the light and glory, the prosperity and happiness of a kingdom, are gone;

    Matthew Henry Complete Commentary
    on the Whole Bible

    Egypt shall lie desolate forty years (v. 12) and then I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, v. 14.
    Some date the forty years from Nebuchadnezzar’s destroying Egypt, others from the desolation of Egypt some time before; however, they end about the first year of Cyrus, when the seventy years’ captivity of Judah ended, or soon after. Then this prediction was accomplished,

    Even Pre-Mill John MacArthur recognizes Ez. 29 and 32 is a past judgement and so states in his Study Bible.

    That is the problem. You and most modern prophecy teachers try to literalize language never intended to be literal. Read Is 13:10 and see how God describes His judgement on Babylon by the Medes.
     

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