Lordship Salvation, Christship Salvation, Jesusship Salvation: You’re invited.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alex Quackenbush, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    Lordship Salvation, Christship Salvation, Jesusship Salvation: You’re invited (for debate and discussion on the matter).

    “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved”.

    When the gospel is presented clearly and properly, the persons considering salvation will have had made clear them to that Jesus is God (Lord), that the Jesus of the Bible is the only Jesus that saves (and not another) and that He is the Christ.(the anointed one, the Messiah, the only means of salvation).

    When the gospel is presented the Bible does not say, “You must make Jim Jesus”. He IS Jesus. When the gospel is presented the Bible does not say, “You must make Him Christ or Messiah or The Annointed One”. He IS Christ. Nor does it say, “You must make Him Lord”. He IS Lord.

    Instead, The Lord Jesus Christ is to be presented as IN FACT, The Lord, Jesus and The Christ. It is not an offer for you to make Him any of these but an offer for you to receive salvation from and by means of The Lord Jesus Christ.

    Hence, what occurs is that instead of focusing on presenting the gospel plainly and clearly regarding who the Lord Jesus Christ is, a preoccupation with what is going on in the minds of the person hearing the gospel is attempted. This is not anyone’s job, that is the Lord’s responsibility.

    And this is a critical problem with “Lordship” salvation.

    Believers are only commissioned to make the gospel clear, not control or manipulate the responses of others or micromanage their thought process.

    If you have been faithful to clearly communicate “The Lord Jesus Christ” then with the person who says “I believe”, you can know with certainty they believe on “The Lord Jesus Christ”.

    You cannot and do not have to power to “make Him Lord” any more than you have the power to “make Him Christ” or “make Him Jesus”. The Bible does not treat these as potentials but as certain facts that you are to believe or not to believe.

    If you do not believe Jesus is God then you are not a candidate for salvation. If you do not believe Jesus was or is Jesus, you are not a candidate for salvation. If you do not believe He is The Christ, you are not a candidate for salvation. They are the inseparable realities of the gospel.
     
    #1 Alex Quackenbush, Nov 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2007
  2. BobRyan

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    Of course I agree that all you can do is present the Gospel - the convicting work must be done by God the Holy Spirit.

    But as for what the "Saved know" --

    How did John the Baptizer accept him?

    What about Timothy before he became a Christian?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I agree. He is already Lord. But many have received the Lord without making Him the Lord of their lives. Big difference...
     
  4. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    This is a necessary question as well as any further investigation regarding the history of the gospel and what men at various times were given and had to believe.

    My response is that to whatever extent the gospel was presented either in its initial prophetic form until the complete revelation in Christ, that is what a person had to believe to be saved.
     
  5. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    I am addressing this in the context of salvation.

    At no point is there anything in the Bible about "making him Lord of your life". Again, He IS LORD. Salvation comes at the point when one believes on "The Lord Jesus Christ".

    The distinction you are making is one that is a practical application of this reality regarding whom we serve, the God of this world of the one true God.

    But in the context of salvation, it is not presented as a potential for you to make, it is a reality that you are offered for salvation, that reality being "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".
     
  6. trustitl

    trustitl
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    To many people are putting strings attached to the gospel;

    Charismatics - tongues
    Church of Christ - water baptism
    Lordship salvation advocates - be really serious

    The lordship salvation teachers are guilty of overreacting to the obvious fact that there are a lot of people saying the magic prayer that don't live for the Lord. Their answer is to make sure that people are "really" saved. We don't need to be afraid of this since Jesus let us know it would happen: the tares WILL grow with the wheat. Just like in the pararble the well intentioned servants wanted to get to work and start pulling weeds.

    Put some thought into what the warning in the parable means.

    Matt. 13:29 "ye root up also the wheat with them."

    I wonder if there were people who were really impressed with Rahab after the walls fell down and complimented her on her great faith and making Jehovah the Lord of her life. If there were, she probably just shook her head and said she just knew that Jehovah was the true God and she didn't want to mess with Him.

    Heb. 11:6 "he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

    Oh how we love to take words like "diligently" and make ourselves the judges of who is and who isn't.

    Let's let God be God.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    I agree. To the extent that "the light comes into the world and enlightens every man" to that extent we must accept and not reject the divine "drawing" the divine light given to each person.

    Certainly in the context of having both the OT and NT and all the Bible understanding that has taken place since the reformation that would include the human nature and diety of Christ.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    As for "Lordship" even before the divine nature of Christ - it is instructive in that in Matt 7 long before Christ had fully made the case for His diety - He argues "Not everyone that SAYS Lord Lord but he who DOES the will of the Father".

    This is "teaching" - not individual correction that Christ is doing. So as a teaching it was right to present even in the OT.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. Sgt. Fury

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    Nobody has brought it up yet, but in the example in the OP, Acts 16:31, I don't think the jailer had heard the gospel yet, since in the next verse they "...spake unto him the word of the Lord..."

    Rom 10:17 says that "...faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". If the jailer had not yet heard the word of God, he could not yet have faith by which to be saved.

    Reading on, he demonstrates repentance by washing their wounds, and is baptized the same hour (middle of the night), the whole scene wrapping up in 16:34 with the jailer "...believing in God with all his house".

    Could it be that there's more to salvation than just believing?
     
  10. BobRyan

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    It is entirely unclear that the Jailer had "no information" leading him to suppose that the Gospel and salvation were to be had through the message of Paul -

     
  11. Sgt. Fury

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    The reason I brought it up is that the text tells us that the jailer was awakened by the earthquake which happened after Paul and Silas were praying and singing. The prisoners would have heard them, which might explain why none of them escaped when they had the chance, but the jailer would not.

    However, if we back up in the account, we might suppose he had heard, or at least heard about the woman who followed Paul and Silas for "many days" crying, "These men are servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation" (16:17, 18). This would certainly explain his question, while leaving room for them to fill him in on the details of the gospel.
     
  12. DHK

    DHK
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    There are many that will admit that Christ is Lord and yet remain unsaved. After all, who said these words?

    "These men are servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation"

    They knew that Christ was Lord.
     
  13. Sgt. Fury

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    Exactly. This poor girl was possessed with a "spirit of divination". The gospel accounts provide several examples that demonstrate that demons know who Jesus is. James uses this fact to make the point that simply believing apart from appropriate action is useless (...the devils also believe, and tremble - James 2:19).
     
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: The thing about ‘Lordship salvation’ that I find interesting is those who promote it as being necessary yet believe that man has nothing to do with their salvation and can do nothing to lose it. That to me is a great inconsistency if not absurdity. If man has nothing to do with his salvation and can do nothing to lose it, if one has not made Christ Lord of their life the blame rests on God not man, does it not? On the other hand, if one can be saved without making Christ Lord, what ultimate difference does it make whether or not Christ is made Lord?
     
  15. Sgt. Fury

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    Just getting back. Very well said, HP. I've often wondered about the stability of people who teach that one can be in a saved state, yet continue living sinful lives under the excuse that they have simply not "made Jesus the Lord of their lives yet".

    Perhaps it springs from the salvation by "faith only" idea, where one is supposedly saved the moment he believes that Jesus is the Son of God, apart from repentance, confession, or baptism, all of which are given in the Bible as being necessary to salvation.

    It's like there's different "stages" of salvation. Of course growth and maturity come with time.
     
  16. trustitl

    trustitl
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    Oh boy I can see the worms crawling out of the can already. :laugh:

    Stages of salvation? NOT!

    Levels of maturity, yes.

    Saving faith = repentance.

    I'll leave the baptism thing to the baptists for awhile and check back when the dust settles. :laugh: .
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Think so?? [​IMG]

    Or maybe [​IMG]

    Now check out the real "Can of Worms".

    Specifically, the photo at the bottom of the page.

    http://www.empirestateroads.com/week/week1.html

    Ed
     
    #17 EdSutton, Dec 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2007
  18. Sgt. Fury

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    I wasn't trying to get anything started. There's probably not a bigger lightning rod than the subject of baptism. I'm just putting it out there according to what I believe the Bible teaches, as everyone else here does. If anyone likes, I'd be happy to support my position from the Scriptures, and I will think no less of anyone who chooses to disagree with me.
     

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