Lordship Salvation

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by loving2daysyouth, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. loving2daysyouth

    loving2daysyouth
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    Here's one, do you accept the idea of "Lordship Salvation?"
     
  2. TC

    TC
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    Philippians 2:10-11
    10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

    Yep, it's clear to me.

    Here is another one - Jesus is speaking

    Luke 19:27
    27But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'" (ESV)

    Jesus definately expects to be Lord
    in his followers lives.
     
  3. loving2daysyouth

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    Absolutely. BUT, is that a requirement for salvation?? Please use Scriptures [​IMG]
     
  4. TC

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    Romans 10:6-13
    6But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (ESV)
     
  5. loving2daysyouth

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    Again, yes, but, Jesus is not Lord in every area of my life, I don't know about yours.
    Does that mean I'm not saved?
     
  6. TC

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    Romans 3:23-26
    23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (ESV)

    Philippians 1:6
    6And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ (ESV)

    Philippians 3:12-16
    12Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16Only let us hold true to what we have attained. (ESV)

    We are saved by grace through faith. God starts a good work in us and will continue and will complete that work in us. We are not perfect yet, but we press on toward that goal. I have not allowed Jesus to be Lord of every area of my life either, but my goal is to let him be Lord of every area of my life. Someday, it will happen.
     
  7. Ed Edwards

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    Unfortunately, we are missing any point.
    What is "Lordship Salvation"? There are two
    main meanings going around evangelical
    circles that contradict each other. The
    meaning you place on "Lordship Salvation"
    determines wheather it is correct or not.

    It is much like the phrase "Easy Believism".
    In fact, i think it is the other side
    of the same coin ;)
    See the discussion on easy believism at:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/2909.html
     
  8. Jeffrey H

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    Jesus is our Lord and Saviour. He is also a Prophet, Priest, and King. He is also fully God as the second person of the Trinity.
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Lordship salvation is an attempt to reconcile faith and works, and makes a mess of it. Well meaning people who understand that we are saved by grace alone through faith, but also see the requirement of works for a believer, have melded them together into some mystical union that should not be. The problem is easily resolved if you realize that the two things are not the same, and they do not serve the same purpose.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    Salvation is not by works; salvation is
    to works.

    Titus 3:8 (HCSB):
    This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
     
  11. Liz Ward

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    Easy believism is the scourge of the modern church. I am not sure what is meant here by Lordship salvation, but as far as I am concerned any attempt to say "I was saved when I was 16 but I didn't make Jesus my Lord until I was 24" is just another way of saying "I was saved when I was 24".

    Liz
     
  12. OldRegular

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    If Jesus Christ is not your Lord He is not your Savior.
     
  13. James_Newman

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    I would agree that easy believism can be a problem, but only in the sense that saved persons are failing miserably of the grace of God simply because they do not realize that they have been called to anything else BUT belief. To say that 'true saving faith' implies a believer will have works is to deny the finished work of Christ. He did all the work. It dosn't do any good to add your own works to anything other than the true faith in Christ's perfect sacrifice. And what works could you add to that sacrifice to secure your salvation? Either you are saved by believing in Him or you are not. Either your works are for your salvation or they are for reward. What sayeth the scripture?
     
  14. Liz Ward

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    I suggest a simple cure for those who think the idea of Jesus being Lord is an optional extra. Go and hang out on some abortion debate lists. It will be an eye-opener. Or just keep your eyes open around your church.

    As a few examples, from those I have met who are professing christians - those who would quite happily say they are born again, they have asked Jesus into their heart, they believe the Bible (well, they think they do) and so on:

    One had an abortion and thinks abortion is perfectly acceptable. She accuses me of bibliolatry.

    A second had sex before marriage with a non-Christian whom he then married. She was apparently then converted. Neither of them have any regrets about having had sex before marriage and neither of them believe that there are any Bible restrictions on whom one can marry.

    A third claims to love Jesus and is a practising witch.

    A fourth does not believe in the resurrection and, get this, does not believe she has ever sinned (!)

    In my own church we have someone who is as near to being a Wiccan as makes no odds, who regularly prays during prayer times and takes communion. We have another who prays for the dead and believes that Prince Charles is a Christian. We have another, a deacon, who doesn't believe anyone is going to hell.

    All these would meet the BARNA definition of a born again Christian and most would meet the BARNA definition of Evangelical.

    Liz
     
  15. OldRegular

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    Lordship Salvation has nothing to do with works Salvation. As for works we cannot ignore Ephesians 2:8-10; though many do.

    Ephesians 2:8-10
    8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    Neither can we deny the words of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Or those of the Apostle John:

    1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    As for working for rewards Scripture tells us:

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    If we are joint heirs with Jesus Christ what more can there be????????
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    Here is my testimony:

    Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):

    That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
    the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
    that God hath raised him from the dead,
    thou shalt be saued.


    I first confessed that Jesus was my Lord in April 1952.
    I believed then that God had raised Him from the dead.
    Jesus became my Lord and Savior then.

    Now, in 2005, 53 years later, Jesus is still my
    Lord and still my Savior. I still believe that God
    raised Jesus from the dead. I still call upon Jesus
    as my Lord. Jesus is still my Savior.

    (This is a figure of speech called the summary. I left
    out a lot of sanctification salvation experiences.)

    So judge me, brothers and sisters - am i a victim
    of easy believes or a practitioner of Lordship Salvation
    or both or neither?
     
  17. Gershom

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    Amen, brother Ed!
     
  18. James_Newman

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    Lordship Salvation has nothing to do with works Salvation. As for works we cannot ignore Ephesians 2:8-10; though many do.

    Ephesians 2:8-10
    8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    Neither can we deny the words of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ:

    Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Or those of the Apostle John:

    1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    As for working for rewards Scripture tells us:

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    If we are joint heirs with Jesus Christ what more can there be????????
    </font>[/QUOTE]You're assuming that every believer is automatically an heir, when the verse is clearly conditional, i.e. if so be that we suffer with him. That sonship, the being joint heir IS the reward, not the free gift of eternal life. You do not have to suffer to be a believer and be raised up on the last day.
     
  19. OldRegular

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    James_Newman you need to get with Wes, Outwest. He doesn't believe in election but likes to limit what Scripture states to an elect few. Isn't that something like eisegesis.

    Look at this Scripture in context:

    Romans 8:14-18
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
    18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.


    Do you deny that "true believers" are not led by the Spirit of God.? Do you deny that "true believers" are the sons of God or children of God? If we are children of God then we are heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

    Note also what Romans 8:28, 29 tells us:

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


    And then there is 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
     
  20. James_Newman

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    I don't see a distinction in the bible between 'true believers' and 'false believers'. I see obedient believers, disobedient believers, and unbelievers. Every born-again believer is considered a child of God, whether he walks like one or not. That does not mean he is going to automatically inherit everything promised to obedient 'sons'. There are scores of conditional promises and warnings in the New Testament written to believers. We have the promise of reigning with Him, if we will suffer for Him in this life (2Tim 2:12). This is a different promise than being raised up on the last day for believing on Him (John 6:40).

    To be considered a son for the inheritance, one must be obedient. To be raised up on the last day, one must be born again. Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom, let alone inherit it.
     

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