Lordship Salvation?

Yet he believed that he followed the law from his youth, and some people here think the statement was true simply because Jesus didn't contradict him directly. (He contradicted him indirectly by asking him to do something he wouldn't do.)

Yet that's not the most amazing thing about what people say regarding this passage. They say this rich young ruler was saved because he followed the law from his youth. What gospel is that? If you can get saved by following the law (from your youth or otherwise), who needs Jesus?

 

Well, feel free to forumlate doctrines based on what YOU think Jesus would or would not have done. I call THAT speculation. I'm sticking to the text. Of all the things Jesus could have told him to do, He told him to do the one thing he wouldn't agree to do. That's what I call exposing a liar.

 

That is "your" speculation. There is NOTHING in the text to suggest that to be so.

No you are not. The text doesn't call him a liar.

And I'm not speculating. The Bible says let your yes be yes and your no be no. So again when someone says something it should be treated as truth unless it is shown to be untruth.

Say I'm speculating that's fine, but please don't say you are sticking to the text, because you simply are not. And just because "you think" His actions expose a liar doesn't make it so.

 

Thank you. I was beginning to think I'd lost all understanding of scripture. I thought this was the way most people interpreted this passage, but obviously not.

 

JJump:

So now you're saying that eternal doesn't really mean eternal? This just keeps getting better and better.

 

I'm with you on this, Amy. I think the passage is very clear.

 

If you run the passage through the kingdom salvation decoder ring, you'll find that "eternal life" has fine print that says, "good for a limited time only", and that "kept the law since my youth" is the one instance in all of human history where someone must have been saved because he SAYS he kept the law -- even though he cops out a minute later because he's greedy.

 

Will the hills in question last through the final destruction of the Earth?


Eternal does mean "eternal." Your definition of eternal is too narrow, and fails to take context into account.

I think this "everlasting statute" has officially ended, with Christ's perfect sacrifice of atonement.

"So now you're telling me infinite doesn't mean "infinite".

Or 'till he died, whichever comes first, huh? Or does he have to serve him in the next life? What if he was saved and his master wasn't? OH MY? Or perhaps forever doesn't mean forever? Or perhaps we forgot definition #3 as a possible definition.

Lacy

 

:laugh:

And as far as keeping the law goes, Paul must have lied when he said "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

I think the point is that Jesus was making it clear that nothing we can do will save us, even keeping the law, because even if we keep the letter of the law, we still sin in our hearts. We can't reach the holiness of God. That's why He goes on to say "with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible". Some interpret this verse as meaning we can do "anything" because "all" things are possible with God, but Jesus was clearly speaking about salvation. For man, salvation is impossible to achieve on his own merit. He must rely on the righteousness imputed to him by Christ.

Sorry, didn't mean to give a sermon. :laugh:

 

Excellent point AMy. WHich is why we can't go sinless even as Christians because until our sin nature is eradicated completely, we will always have sin.

 

It is impossible to determine the meaning of a word, especially a multi-faceted word without taking context into consideration. To jump to the most absolute meaning of the word when context dictates otherwise, is not wise.

Lacy

 

Maybe you did hit your head too hard on the nail. It could have affected your memory, maybe.

From post #89:

Once again, as I posted elsewhere,

"The Bible doesn't talk like this!"

It never says any such thing.

The Bible does say we were dead in trespases and sins. The Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. And on and on we could go with the actual statements made in Scripture.

In fact, I will add a couple more. The Bible says, quoting Jesus, "He that believes in Me has everlasting life." (Did you note there is no other caveat, here, in Jo. 6:47?) Again, "For God so loved the world, that He gave..." - you know the rest, I hope and presume. Again, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this thing is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God - and not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for the purpose of good works, which God has designed beforehand that we should walk in them." (That is in the future subjunctive tense and mood, I believe, and doesn't say we will walk in them, automatically or otherwise, BTW.)

That is why I posted what I did. With all respect, look carefully at the teachings of Lordship Salvation, search the Scriptures, and clearly think them through. You may be surprised at what you actually find. And this is absolutely true when, whether, and what I, or anyone else, teaches about anything. Don't take my word for it; instead, take God's word.

Ed

 

Lacy:

The word eternal used in Luke 18:18 means forever, everlasting.

It does not mean for a period of 1000 years.

That is the context as confirmed by Strongs. Or are you going to say Strongs is inaccurate?

 

No problem. Good sermon. I agree 100%. What I find really funny is that if someone came on here and said they swear in Jesus' name that they have followed the law since their youth, how do you think people would react:

Multiple choice:

1. Having His name invoked, Jesus would surely appear and expose him as a liar if he were actually lying. So if Jesus doesn't suddenly appear and call him a liar, the person must be telling the truth. Not only that, but he can't possibly be self-deceived and simply BELIEVES he followed the law. And even though you can't get saved by following the law, we owe it to him to grant special dispensation and assume that his self-testimony (the testimony of a single person, no less) must be hard evidence that he is saved. Anything he says or does in the next 5 minutes must be ignored as further evidence.

2. The person is lying.

3. The person is crazy.

 

Ed, I do not believe in Lordship salvation. I believe as you do. I was merely pointing out our motives when we cry out to God for salvation, not that God requires anything of us other than to believe. If I say that I would have given anything to be saved, I only mean that God was most important to me. Also, when I was discussing this it wasn't in response to the Lordship salvation issue. I was speaking to JJump about the absurdity of the M.E. doctrine. I was trying to point out that the passage in question (Luke 18:18) was speaking about eternal life, not the millennial kingdom as JJump believes.
I hope this clears things up.

 

Did you even read my post? Strongs uses English definitions. I have already proven (from scripture) that your "definitions" are very proper synonyms in that they convey a long amount of time. an "Age-lasting" amount of time, if you will.

Must we debate in two different languages? Eon!

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source e·on also ae·on (ē'ŏn', ē'ən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. An indefinitely long period of time; an age.

It doesn't matter which language you choose, in either the word (eternal, aion) must be defined by context because,in either, it is never absolute.

 

Oh yeah, the context really demands that it should have been translated, "What shall I do that I may get an extra 1,000 years in the coming kingdom?"

That's SO clear. BAD translators (thwack), bad!

And Jesus and the ruler had such an immediate meeting of minds, too, because the ruler must have known the deity of Christ and received Him as savior. That's why Jesus responded immediately with, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God."

 

The translators got it exactly right, context and all. It's not their fault if we overlook it.

Life (Eternal Life) in this context is Christ's coming Kingdom

Which lasts, according to Rev 20, 1000 years.

 

As we have proven, the word "eternal" in Luke 18:18 means forever. (Strongs 166) A 1000 year period is NOT forever or eternal. It doesn't fit.

 

It fits if you use the Greek word "Aion" or the English word "Eternal" (Which both mean "age-lasting") to describe an "Age" which lasts 1000 years.