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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rolfe, Jun 20, 2014.
Would someone define Lordship Salvation in one sentence?
It is confessing from a heart of belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and being from thenceforth conformed to that which you have confessed.
Without this there is no salvation. The Bible does not say that "accepting him as Savior" is the condition of salvation. It says, "That if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, believing in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved... For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved." Romans 10:9-13
Lordship Salvation is Arminianism in disguise. Can't get any simpler than that
Hardly. I wouldn't call MacArthur an arminian in the least.
To sum up the doctrine...you exchange your life of sin for Christ. Sounds spiritual but nothing more than front loaded works.
Romans 10:9-13 is not works salvation.
Whatever it is, it's harsh. What little I know of it repulses me.
Jesus said why call me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say
Here is what Lordship salvation is;
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Lordship salvation is making an extreme out of calling Jesus Lord as shown here. Note how twice Jesus speaks of people that call him "Lord, Lord" as if that will earn them heaven. They think their obedience will save them. They boast that they prophesied in Jesus name, that they cast out devils in his name like the Charistmatics and Catholics do, and they boast of their many wonderful works done in Jesus name.
And they are as lost as a turkey on Thanksgiving Day. Why? Because they are trusting in themselves and not Jesus alone to save them.
The Pharisee in Luke 18 was exactly the same.
Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Was the Pharisee an atheist? NO, he believed in God, and he did his very best to obey God. As much as we criticize the Pharisees, they were very good men compared to the average person. Many lived very holy lives.
The problem was they trusted in their works to save them, note how the Pharisee boasted he was not an extortioner (which publicans were considered to be), unjust, or adulterers. He gave tithes of everything he possessed.
But he did not depend on God alone to save him, so he was lost.
The publican on the other hand made no boast of his wonderful works as the Pharisee did, he confessed he was a sinner and cast himself on God's mercy. This is what saving faith is, to depend completely on God alone to save you.
And God did save the publican, Jesus said he went down to his house justified.
So, you call Jesus, "Lord, Lord" and do all your wonderful works and see where it gets you.
Or, you can just ask Jesus to save you like the publican did. Easy.
Here is the short version...: Yet one more unbiblical insult used to hurl at the "other side," that people can't even agree on the meaning of. When the meaning cannot be agreed upon it can be hurled at multiple people for multiple reasons. Just know someone, in whatever the discussion is, means it as an insult! :thumbs:
Yeah, that's more than one sentence, but it 3 for 1 day here!
And Arminianism is back loaded works.
One says faith without works sends you to hell, the other says the same. One requires commitment to prove eternal life, the other requires commitment to keep eternal life
Subject any man you wish, in any state of sin or righteousness, to each system. And both the Lordship proponent and the Arminian will agree on his eternal fate. That is every time, without fail, without exception
Lordship salvation is nothing but Arminianism in disguise.
It is believing that Jesus is your Lord or Master. (Romans 10:9)
It's not works salvation. Works are evidence that we love Jesus(John 14:15)
Works come from a heart of faith and shows that we have real faith (James 2:17)
It is not that you have to start being perfect to be saved, just repent of the sin in your life. True repentance will be evidence when that actions change.
Common misunderstanding, but no works are required for salvation in lordship salvation. It's simply recognizing that Jesus is your master. Will you be perfect, no, but Lordship Salvation doesn't teach that you will be or have to be.
best person to do that would be Dr MacArthur, as he has been the foremost proponent of
He seems to be defining salvation by what it produces and what salvation will not fail to produce—namely, not only glorification, but good works, repentance, faith, sanctification, yieldedness, and obedience.
The problem is that he sees ALL of these things MUST be fully operating in the Christian in order to have them be really saved, yet Justification itself is by Grace ALONE, received thru faith ALONE, and once asinner gets saved, THEN all the other aspects start to be real, NOT required by God before there is true salvation!
Mixture of Justification/sauctification, almost like an Evangelical form of how catholics see sinners have to get actually right with God in their behaviour before they can merit His salvation!
Salvation comes by the preaching of the cross. Do you not preach the cross?
Yes, but do not require the sinners to do ANYTHING other then turn to jesus, look at Him, and get saved!
same way Spurgeon said that he did!
Actually, ALL Christians have Jesus as their Lord, its just that we have differing timelines of just how much we have made Him Lord in a practical sense!
We will never get to the point where he is lord over us in the sense that we are always obeying him and His word, that would be sinless perfection, but we are called to being more and more in his image!
Uh Romans 10:9-10 says otherwise. Jesus preached repentance. The message of the cross must be preached.
So again I ask. How do you preach the cross faithfully and deal with sin? I would like a direct answer to that.
Well no one has done it in one sentence.
I won't either.
Lordship salvation defined by a primary proponent:
As quoted by J. B. Hixson, (2013). Getting the Gospel Wrong: The Evangelical Crisis No One Is Talking About (Revised Edition., p. 221-222). Duluth, MN: Grace Gospel Press.
ALL that God requires a sinner do in order to get saved is to admit they are sinners, cannot save themselves, only hope to to place faith unto jesus, who died in their place, and took the penalty in full for their sins! Repenting at this justification stage will be to admit cannot save ourselves by ANYTHING we do, no merit in us!
Once saved by God... NOW we are into epenting for our sin areas, to see ourselves as needing to keep contnually be tranforming more into image of Christ in sauctification, but all that AFTER being saved first!
All Christians would agree that we need to live our lives in a fashion that reflect that Jesus has saved us, and that the holy spieit is now indwelling and empowering us on how we ought to live...
To get saved/justified by God is indeed faith alone in the finished work of Christ!
And yet Jesus Himself preached repentance. So again I ask how can one preach the cross and not deal with sin? When we preach the cross to anyone prior to salvation it is necessary to deal with the fact that we are sinners and that must change. Anyone who says I admit I am a sinner, I want God's salvation but have no intention of changing my life is nothing more than the rich young ruler.