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Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Jabbezzz, Oct 26, 2004.
Does anyone have any personal experience with LBU's programs of study?
I personally have not, but a close friend of mine is working on his M.Div. through LBU. He's pleased, but it isn't the route I would take to earn my degree. The courses are very easy (just time consuming) and are not proctored. If you're pursuing an education for your own personal knowledge and fulfillment, I think it's probably great. However, if you're wanting rigorous academics and a degree that is accredited by a regional accrediting body, it's probably not for you.
I hope this is helpful!
Thanks, MJ7, for the response. Any other feedback on LBU?
Hi, I have personal experience with LBU and I find that many of the courses are time consuming as well. However, I have had to have three exams proctored so far in order to have them legitimized.
Thank you, Saint. Which program are you enrolled in at LBU?
Hello again. I am enrolled in the prophetics doctoral program with a concentration in Eschatology. I am very pleased with the people I am working with and the textbooks they have chosen for the courses. I find that the course work is lengthy but I do learn a lot from it. Although they are an unaccredited institution, they have a solid reputation. I struggled with the issue of whether or not to attend an unaccredited college but the tuition was reasonable. I had previously been enrolled at American Christian College and Seminary which had been accredited by TRACS but they lost their accreditation. I felt bad for those who were into their second or third year at ACCS only to find that they were losing their accreditation. I understand that some colleges seek accreditation while others do not. The process is a very expensive one. So, I have to say that I
have been very satisfied with my experience with LBU so far.
OK, for those who truly know, I would love to hear why Yarnell really turned this great job down? Let's face it, in Baptist University life, this was a plum of a job... a real gem...one of the best! I am a New Orleans Seminary grad with a Doctgor of Ministry Degree in 1990, so I know how important this College is in Louisiana! It is a BIG-DEAL COLLEGE and this is a BIG DEAL DECISION!!!
I know what the "spin" says, but what is the TRUTH? Or, are the top people afraid of letting the truth be known? I know in our beloved SBC, they have been afraid to let the truth get out for over 25 years. Too bad, because when the TRUTH is out, people can see it, pray about it, and make proper decisions based on the TRUTH and not lies, half-truths, personal beliefs, etc.
So, lets use this board to get out the truth; the true, God ordained truth ... out to the public! It is high-time the "truth comes out to public from the closed doors and closed rooms of so-called Executive Sessions" and allow the people to hear what the truth really is... OK? Let's do it! No rumors, gossip, lies, etc., but lets get to the truth.
People may realize this yet, but his turning down this College job AFTER accepting it is a BIG DEAL in Baptist Life! It would be like a TOP college footbal coach accepting a high-profile job at a top-10 University and then a few weeks later, right before he was to start coaching the team, to call and say they could not work out the details as to who would call the plays, design the offense, and select the Uniform style! Make sense?!? OK top administrrators, lets hear and see the truth! Brting it out of the dark and into the light of the Lord!!!
Thank you, Saint, for the feedback. Which prophetics doctorate are you pursuing? DMin or ThD? Is Dr. James Combs your advisor?
Actually, because I had an M.A. and not a M.Div. I could not enter their Th.D. program in prophetics. They offer a Ph.D. in that concentration and that is the program they placed me in. Yes, Dr.Combs is my primary advisor although I also have two others; Dr. Wallace and Dr. Sheffield. Thomas Ice, who has authored many books on prophecy is a graduate of LBU as is Grant Jeffery and Chuck Missler. The prophetics course is very interesting. I just finished a course entitled "Israelology" based on the book "Israelology: The Missing Link in Sytematic Theology" by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum. It was a very "meaty" course which I thought I would never finish but when I finlly completed it, I was very pleased with the fact that I decided to take that course in the first place. I learned much that I did not know before. My primary reason for deciding to attend this school is that it was scripturally sound. The short time I spent at ACCS proved to be not necessarily so. When all is said and done, adherence to the truth of God's Word is the determining factor.
I graduated from LBU in May of this year, earning the Ph.D. in practical theology. Dr. Wallace served as my primary advisor, with Dr.'s James Combs and Fred Moody serving with him on my dissertation committee. These men were such a delight to work with. God's best in your studies.
How long did your doctorate take to complete? It took me three years to finish my M.A. from LBU. I believe I will spend three years altogether to complete the doctorate. What was your concentration in theology? Are you a pastor? What do you believe God has called you to do with the education you received at LBU? I know, this sounds like 20 questions doesn't it? I'm just curious about those who go to LBU and why they chose that school. Do you also believe that they adhere to sound doctrine?
My undergrad degree (BA in pastoral ministries) was earned at a regionally accredited university. I then earned the MA in church ministries (54 hours) at a regionally and ATS accredited seminary. Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) was then taken at the Baptist Hospital in my state. Acceptance was then gained into a Doctor of Ministry program at a regionally and ATS accredited seminary, which I completed with an emphasis in pastoral ministry. I share this only to state that my earning of the LBU Ph.D. was not to obtain the title "Dr." DMin graduates enjoy that title, if they choose to use it.
I wanted a credible PhD program, but could not afford the regionally/ATS accredited route--the most economical being a minimum of $50,000+. Tuition for my entire academic background was paid by, you guessed it, me. To invest another $50,000+ was for me not feasible. Once I settled on completing an unaccredited PhD, the question was "which school?" So many unaccredited schools resemble degree mills, and I certainly wanted no association with such a school. LBU's connection with the BBFI became the one criterion that sealed my decision. The LBU PhD was a 60 hour program, with 15 hours alloted for the dissertation--mine being 203 pages, with 17 a page bibliography. I worked on the program, with an emphasis in pastoral ministry, for almost four years. My DMin took three to earn.
Yes, I serve as a senior pastor. My earning of the LBU PhD was for personal edification, continuing education and enhancement of my ministry calling. In my opinion, LBU maintains a strong Independent Fundamentalist Baptistic theological position. However, the school is not so exclusive that students outside that faith tradition are ostracized. Although I adhere to the majority of the theological positions held by LBU, I am not Independent Baptist. Yet, Dr. Wallace was a Christian gentleman throughout my program.
God's best in your studies,
What would you say was the difference in rigor between LBU and the ATS accredited schools you attended? There has been much debate on other educational chat boards about just this issue. While accreditation is fine, it is an expensive edeavor, and even some of the Christian accreditors make the school engage in changes that they would ordinarily not do. I think it was at Westminster that, in order to achieve accreditation, the board of eleders had to allow a woman to be an elder or not receive their accreditation. So, the government, through some of these religious accreditors, is telling colleges what they may and may not do. The government wants no interference from the church but it sure wants to get its fingers into the church's pie. I agree there are many degree mills in operation but there were pastors obtaining seminary degrees long before accreditation became an issue. And like you stated, a $50,000.00 tuition is a high sacrifice to follow a calling that probably won't pay much. And I'm not sure that this, as a ministry should pay much and that then hardly justifies paying a lot of money for a seminary degree. I believe in getting the best Christian education one can without going overboard with the tuition. Personally, I don't think God thinks so either (not that I think for Him mind you) I believe that if we study His Word and that teaching is biblically sound, He honors that. Sorry, I have rambled on quite a bit.
Having completed doctorates from both accredited and unaccredited institutions, perhaps my perspective is somewhat unique. The DMin which I earned was not a distance education program, but was completed on-campus in block residencies. The PhD was via distance education, with only one week spent on-campus. Distance education programs (at least credible substantive programs) are not designed for those who lack motivation and self-discipline. Successful distance learners must exhibit self-discipline, tenacity and perseverence.
The rigor between the two programs was quite similar. Keep in mind the DMin is a professional (oriented toward the practice of the ministry), while the PhD is a research degree. The individual courses were similar in course content, requirements, etc. My PhD dissertation was double the length of my DMin dissertation. And while the PhD is unaccredited, much more "blood, sweat & tears" were invested in this dissertation than its DMin counterpart.
I know what you mean about having to be disciplined when you are in a program on your own. When I went to State university of New York, it was comprised of the same method. Even though I could meet personally with my professors for one hour every other week, all of my work had to be extrapolated from sources that I determined were college level. If they weren't college level, my professors would make me start an assignment all over again. It took focus and discipline. I write better than I read as my mind tends to wander as I read boring parts of books. I also have found that there is a lot of work involved in LBU's courses. I just received one back today. Although the grade was very good, the paper was thoroughly critiqued. I also made the mistake, and it was a mistake of carelessness on my part, of submitting a 32 page paper which was really a 64 page paper because I single spaced the entire assignment rather than double spaced it which is the format that I was supposed to use. I kept thinking that the assignment was taking longer than usual to write. Well, it ended up being a very comprehensive study of the subject and Dr. Wallace spoke highly of it. Well, it's almost midnight so I think I will call it a night. I'll be talking with you another time. Good night.
Perhaps you could request double credit for the paper. It wouldn't hurt to ask...........
......or perhaps ask if my next paper could be half as long!
What part of the southeast are you from?
I am from the Northeast.....Rochester, New York.
Oops, sorry! I must have read the profile incorrectly.