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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by SaggyWoman, Sep 23, 2004.
Who really does that anymore??
Thankfully, Jesus does. If he doesn't, then we're all doomed, aren't we?
I hate sinners too, even though they are just doing what sinners do. Saw two homo women "making out" on a mall bench on Sunday (in California; they'd get hung in Wyoming for such) and I hustled my little grandson away. Didn't want him to see such perversion.
Hate the sin. Hate the sinner. But for the grace of God, that would be me (with the cuter of the two gals, I think).
A recovering Pharisee and not getting far in my 12-step program . .
Dr Bob, I happen to think that any overt display of affection (ie, making out, etc), whether it be between same sex or opposite sex, is inappropriate. You would be right, if you were offended, to leave the area. I probably would have pointed and said "look, isn't that gross??"
I was walking through a mall a few years ago with my brother. I had my arm over his shoulder, and a guy yelled out "fags" as he passed us. To make it worse, the guy was wearing a shirt that read "Bethel Baptist Youth Ministry". Sad that we were the victim of someone's (to some) well-meaning, but unrightreous, attempt to hate the sin and the sinner.
Just recently, I was in that same mall with my nearly 17yo daughter, and we were walking arm in arm. A guy in his early 20s made the comment "pops is gonna get some" (implying that I was going to have sex with the girl I was with), not realizing that we were fauther and daughter, not boyfriend and girlfriend. Not wanting to embarrass my daughter, who did not hear the comment, I ignored it, but it stewed with me for a while.
So should I hate those sinners who made those sinful and rude comments to me? After all, if I can scripturally hate the sinner, right?
"Hate the sin. Hate the sinner. But for the grace of God, that would be me (with the cuter of the two gals, I think)."
Dr, Bob, you playa there is no doubt you are not gay, " and I hustled my little grandson away. Didn't want him to see such perversion."
any decent person would have done the same, its sad that we live in a society, that allows this kind of perversion, to be so accepted, that we not only have it shoved down our throats on t.v., and in public, but now public school systems offer special programs for these little perverts too, but God forbid you would be allowed to read your bible at a public school, or even mention the name of Jesus with out being sent home. A reason to be angry at sin, for me, anyways.
An interesting report on one man's experience in his ministry in this area can be found at
Click on "Mars Hill Forum #80"
that was just plain old ignorance on thier part.
That was just plain old perversion on that guys part, that guy probably targets young girls, its a scarry society we live in, I have a 12 year old daughter myself, and it seriously scares me, all the things that kids have to deal with these days, sex, drugs, gangs, peer-pressures, all we can do is our best to protect them, and diciplin them, keep them grounded in Gods word, and pray a hedge of protection around them, every time they leave the house, and shame on the parents who raise thier kids with the "if it feels good , do it" attitude.
Did God burn the sodomy OR the sodomite? Did He love those He drowned in Noah's day? I hate the things God hates.
Just take one step at a time
Well, that was God, and it seems He did it after a long period of time, maybe giving them time to repent (as He did with the wicked before the Flood and with Nineveh -- and they did repent, which disappointed Jonah!).
I do not think we are called anywhere to hate people, especially since "God so loved the world" that he sent Jesus. Also, we are to do this:
I don't think this means we don't call sin sin, but hating sinners? That's a new one. I had some encounters with those type of Christians before I was saved and I sure as heaven don't want to be like one of them.
How come the word from the Word says that God loved Jacob but hated Esau?? But God isn't supposed to hate the sinner???
What about what Jesus says----something like---Whoso wishes to follow Me and hateth not his father and mother, his children, his wife, and yea even his own life---is not worthy of Me??
When someone sees the topic in the tread----Hate the sin, love the sinner---or as Saggy says, "Loving the sinner, hateing the sin"----we get the wrong idea of what hate is and of what love is!
"God is love"---wouldn't you agree??? Folks are led to believing---"Well! If God is love, its impossible for Him to hate! So therefore, God cannot hate anybody!" Which is a lie!
Human nature is an evil thing. By our nature we tend to fear and attack that which is different from us. When I was in college in the frats (very lost at that time) we made gay jokes and made fun of those people. This is human nature at work.
What is really sad is that many Christians seem to think that because sodomy is called an abomination then it must be OK to "hate" homosexuals. This is nothing more than allowing our human nature to rear its ugly head - and then stamping God's approval on it. Shame shame.
We are to love all men, sinners (like us) and all! Anyone who can "hate" another man and think God approves of it is not much of a Christian, if one at all.
God loves all sinners. And until the day each of us dies there is hope of repentence.
Yes Granny, God did love those who drowned in Noah's day. He sent them an Ark and gave them many years to repent. The same goes for Sodom.
Dr. Bob got is right when he said
You want to know why we stop loving sinners, because we forget that we are one of them. You have done nothing on your own to deserve God's love and grace. And no pervert on the earth including the couple Dr. Bob witnessed has done more to deserve hell than you or I. If we would just remember that from time to time I don't think we would be so quick to judge.
But that is a painful memory. We would rather congratulate one another on our own holiness and like the Laodiceans we say:
If we could see ourselves the way God once saw us, we could see in others the potential only God can know.
People forget the words of Paul
1Ti 1:15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. "
Paul said this after he had been converted. So When you point the finger, three are pointed back at you.
That is a great verse. I don't see any action on my own part in that verse. God is the only reason why I am given grace, and I am no more deserving than the pervert or "Homosexual offender"
To pretend that the beam in our own eye is any less offensive to God is to become a Pharisee 12 stepper who still hasn't taken the first step. Admit you have a problem. If a man offends in one point, he is guilty of all. God's holiness is offended and violated by our lack of compassion for sinners as it is by their sin. Jesus equated hatred with Murder. Matt 5:21-22
We have no right to act with the authority of God in condemning sinners, we simply are held accountable to God for our own thoughts, attitudes and actions, and are responsible to share the truth of God's Word with those who are lost.
I try too. Sometimes it is really hard! But, I try
God is God. You and I are not. You and I are called (aka, required) to follow the examples of Jesus, our brother. Jesus did not call us to hate anyone. In fact, Jesus makes it clear that we're to love our enemies, love our neighbors, love ourselves, love Him, love God the Father, etc. Loving is much more difficult, but much more spiritually healthy, than hating. I would rather follow the NT example that Jesus gave us, and be in error, rather than follow the OT example, and be right.
Amen, preach it!!
How absolutely true your words are. Indeed, there are numerous abominations in scripture, and several sins unto death. Alas, in looking them up, just about every one of us here on the board have committed at least a few, and are likey to repeat them in our lifetimes because of our human sinful nature. I am certainly no exception to that rule.
God's people are told to hate the same things that God hates.
Psalm 139:21-22: "Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I greived with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them mine enemies." 2 Chronicles 19:2 rebukes the king for failing to do so. "...Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD."
Sinners can be brought under the love of God, but until this happens wrath abides on them. We hear it all the time, "God loves everybody"...if that's true, then why would the sinner need to be changed? "...except ye repent..." (Luke 13:3 kjBible)
[Q]Jer 30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
Jer 30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done [it], and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it. [/Q]
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.[/Q]
I don't think that "hate" is quite the same thing as the "hate" that makes someone vandalize the home of a homosexual couple. Or the "hate" that would make someone treat a homosexual co-worker as though he were pond scum and refuse to work with him. And to do so in the name of Christianity.
It seems to me to be more of a collective "hate", or rather "intense disapproval" of the particular class of sinner that is being referred to here. For instance, I would not, as a conservative Christian, do either of the things mentioned above. That would be un-Christlike. But I would, as a Christian, oppose same-sex marriage, oppose abortion, and, on a more personal level, respectfully decline to attend the "wedding" of the homosexual co-worker.
See the difference?