Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski to be on C-SPAN Q & A

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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  2. Rocko9

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    I have just breifly skimmed over some of the articles. All I can say is Wow, this really deep and detailed and probably won't be very popular here on the board.
     
  3. KenH

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    Yeah, I know, Rocko9. But as long as it is possible those of us who believe in limited, constitutional government need to spread the truth.
     
  4. SpiritualMadMan

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    Ok...

    So, we are "Force-Feeding" prisoners who are trying to commit suicide by self starvation while liberals block almost every effort to resolve their cases in the most expeditious manner possible. Military Tribunals...

    It will be interesting to see how this all pans out...

    I will grant that we have been slow in resolving the "grey area" cases...

    Haven't we actually released and sent some home already? Seems I remember that the camp is a good deal smaller today than at it's peak?

    But, with the large numbers of prisoners and the distractions of a war time footing...

    How do you know who is or is not a real Intelligence Source...

    Especially before we have a clear victory...

    But, things have drug on far longer than anyone expected because of purely politcal decisions that have tied or militarys hands...

    So, now we have all these totally uncooperative yet potential intelligence "assets" while America's Patience with the long time frame wears thin...

    And, if we didn't force feed them and we let them die...

    Not only would we lose a potentially crucial piece of intelligence...

    I can't imagine to outrage of such a death from a *real* incidence...

    I mean look at how the liberal media played up and misquoted the Quoran down the toilet scenario...

    The media is out for blood and at this time none of them are smart enough to realize that in any over thrown, whether Communist or Islamic, the media Types are the **FIRST ONES** to be either subjugated or eliminated...

    And, to date, the latter has been the preferred choice...

    Mike Sr.
     
  5. emeraldctyangel

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    Yes we tube feed those who manage to sew their mouths shut in protest or whatever.

    Yes we have released some of the detainees from detention.

    And 100% in agreement about those who are first to be subjugated.
     
  6. emeraldctyangel

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    The LtCol sounds rather bitter. Her articles read like a personal journal.
     
  7. KenH

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    Kwiaitkowski doesn't sound bitter to me. She sounds like someone who has had her eyes opened to the truth about Leviathan.
     
  8. Rocko9

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    I do not think Kwiaitkowski takes any delight in reporting the truth, therefore it sounds like bitterness to some. No this is more like anguish knowing that the truth being laid out is not pretty but a good moral conscience requires that it be brought forth. I expect a lot of bitterness in the responses that her articles will attract.
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

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    There are many people like that in the world. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Daisy

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    The "Force-Feeding" consists of tying them to a chair for hours, stuffing a tube up their nose & down their throats, not gently, but so that their screams may serve as a warning to others, fluids laced with milk of magnesia is forced down them and then they are forced to sit, still tied, in their own excrement and bloody vomit (link to audio report by NPR). Is that humane?

    Well, that is just flat-out false.

    It isn't liberals who oppose habeas corpus. It isn't liberals who've refused to let the Red Cross interview prisoners. It isn't liberals who've held what may be totally innocent people in solitary confinement incognito for years. Even a military tribunal, while questionably appropriate for non-military personnel, would be better than what has happened so far.

    Mark Denbeaux, a professor at Seton Hall University of Law, and lawyer for a couple of detainees, called for a Military Tribunal just this moring on C-Span. He's one of the guys who wrote the recent report (linkie) - read it and weep - on who's who at Guantanamo Bay.
    Yes, it always is.

    Is kidnapping Canadian citizens on American soil, sending them to Syria for a year of "questioning" before releasing them without charging them with any crime one of those grey areas? Is holding people for years without informing them of the charges who were turned over by Pakistanis AFTER bounties were offered one of those gray areas? Is arresting every male in the neighborhood after an incident whether they were armed or not and holding them for years one of those gray areas? If not, please explain what you do mean by "grey area".

    Which leads to the question why they were held for years in the first place, if only the worst of the worst were being held there. The ones sent home were mostly the ones whose governments, such as the UK, Australia and Canada, were in a position to protest.

    Well, I've heard rumors that the ones who were really thought to have inportant knowledge went to the secret CIA camps. At any rate, that's always been a good question. Torture seems a very bad technique for finding out. Isn't there some sort of expiration date on useful intelligence?

    There will never be a "clear victory" in the War on Terror - that's the beauty of it - put down one group, there will always be scores more, related or not to the first, all over the world, with the possible exception of Anartica. We even have our very own home-grown organizations in the US, the UK and Oz.

    There was a clear victory against the Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein in something like three weeks...remember "Mission Accomplished"? We let loose not only the dogs, but the wolves, jackals, rats and mosquitoes of war. Havoc!

    Like not putting in enough troops to keep civil order (big one), like not paying the civil police to stay on, like not securing the borders, like not foreseeing the return of the Shi'ia exiles in Iran, like expecting the Iraqi people to embrace a foreign occupier for more than a few months, like supposing the old rivalries would not come to the forefront, like not expecting the Iraqis and much of the world would object to torturing prisoners?

    Uncooperative? How do you know who is uncooperative and who knows nothing? One interrogator kept beating a prisoner for a while after he'd died because he was being uncooperative - unfortuneately, the prisoner was wearing a hood so the interrogator didn't realize he was beating a dead "asset".

    What has patience got to do with this war? I used to think it was impatience that led Bush to start the invasion of Iraq, but that latest memo(linkie) showed that, well actually, yeah, he was impatient because he'd already determined to invade whether Saddam cooperated or not.

    Yeah, torturing them until they want to die makes much better PR....

    By "liberal" I assume you mean MainStream Media and they reported the story and the debunking of the story. The neocon media played the same story, but with a "so what, ha ha" perspective.

    The Velvet Revolution went off nicely with a playwrite-poet put in charge. I don't recall the Poles jailing the media Types after they freed themselves from the Soviet Block. Where do you get your factoids?

    Either you have a very short, selective memory or you haven't been paying much attention. Almost all of the media, left & right, loved this war when it began. For a brief overview of the MSM cheersquad click here.
     
  11. KenH

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    Yes, Daisy. It called "perpetual war for perpetual peace". And, unfortunately, so many conservatives have fallen into the trap of supporting this idea - whether they realize it or not(I seriously doubt that they would be so gung ho, though, if it was a President Gore who had ordered the invasion of Iraq in 2003).

    But, fortunately, some folks such as Ms. Kwaitkowski have had their eyes opened and are now sharing with the rest of us so that we too can have our eyes opened to the truth.
     
  12. emeraldctyangel

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    Youre beginning to sound like a couple other alleged people on this site when they mutter on about black helos.

    IF she is so enlightened, than let her step forward and guide this nation. Otherwise the good Dr. can go back to preparing her lesson plans.
     
  13. SpiritualMadMan

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    So, the American Government is satan itself...

    My, how patriotic???

    Are you sure you're not Muslim?

    I mean they are the ones who go around calling the US 'the great satan'...

    Finding fault with American Methodologies is one thing.

    But, calling *MY* land the great satan while calling oneself a Christian and an American...

    Sorry,

    That's just more than I can handle.

    Mike Sr.
    God First! Then Prayer for My Country...

    May I never criticize something openly I haven't already offered the Effectual Fervent Prayer of a Righteous Man for..
     
  14. StefanM

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    BTW...Leviathan isn't Satan.
     
  15. KenH

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    I guess you aren't very well read on political literature - especially in the area of conservative/libertarian ideology.

    "In modern usage, derived from Hobbes, the word "Leviathan" generally refers to the state and reflects concern that the state may exceed its proper scope and power." - under the entry for Leviathan(book) at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page . I can't get the direct link to work.

    Also, see LINK.
     
  16. KenH

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    Actually, there is a movement to encourage her to run for president in 2008. So maybe she will.
     
  17. SpiritualMadMan

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    I am not read in Libertarian Literature at all...

    However, most of the Christian Religious works I have read include Leviathan as one of the names for the ruling chaos figure in OT times. Ie., satan.

    So, please forgive me if I approach this from a 'religious background' as I was not aware I was supposed to subjugate my Christian Understanding to the political. [​IMG]

    Mike Sr.
    Should I trust reputed Religious Scholars or the secular wikipeadia?

    BTW: This is what I got when I did my own wikipeadia search:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

    And, Gregory A. Boyd in "God at War" has many footnotes supporting his own assertaion that Leviathan is Biblical word picture of satan.
     
  18. KenH

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    No doubt if this was a theology forum then we would be discussing "Leviathan" in a different context.

    But since this is a politics forum I am using the term "Leviathan" as conservatives/libertarians have done through the years. [​IMG]

    I first saw the term in a political context in one of my favorite books - In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo, by Frank S. Meyer, published in 1962.

    To quote from page 82 of this book:

    "The state is not co-extensive with the totality of that which it governs; it is a definite group of men, distinct and separate from other men, a group of men possessing the monopoly of legal coercive force. And it remains thus set off, separate, whether it governs with or without the consent of the governed, with or without their participation in the choice of the governors. Even in a democratic polity, the state is not "we," identical with all the people, as is so often claimed; it is "they," those who hold state power. Rarely in political theory is the state thus presented for what it is: a special and limited institution. What is in actuality a specific power is hallowed with the aura of universality. Theory thereby gives sanction to the state's bursting the limits of its proper function - with the ever-present danger of its becoming an all-embracing Leviathan."
     
  19. poncho

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    Leviathan, isn't that a large parasitical creature that feeds on it's hosts blood till the arteries collapse?
     
  20. KenH

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    A pretty apt description of our government in America today, poncho. [​IMG]
     

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