Lucifer

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Phillip3, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Phillip3

    Phillip3
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    My daughter attends a KJVO Fundamental Baptist Church which I visit.

    I noticed the pastor says that removing the word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 from modern translations was placed there by the modern evil translators. According to him this was added by Westcott and Hort. :tongue3:

    This is where education helps.

    The Hebrew actually translates to "Shining Star".

    If I am not mistaken, Erasmus was the first to use the "Latin" word "Lucifer" from the Latin vulgate for which the actual Latin translation means: "Bringer of the morning" or in more modern English ''the planet Venus" or "Morning Star".

    I find verse comparisons of the KJV with modern translations to contain many errors like this.

    I would like to hear some KJVO thoughts on this and maybe other remarks.

    Also, include other comparisons between the KJVO and other books where errors like this are found.
     
  2. Logos1560

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    The old 1300’s Wycliffe's Bible made from the Latin Vulgate may have been the first English Bible to introduce the Latin word "lucifer" into English at Isaiah 14:12.

    The 1395 edition of the Wycliffe Bible had “Lucifer” more than once since it was also used at Job 38:32: “Whether thou bringest forth Lucifer, that is, day star, in his time, and makest evening star to rise on the sons of earth.“

    The Oxford English Dictionary pointed out at its entry word Lucifer the following: "The Latin word was adopted in all the English versions down to 1611" (IX, p. 81). This source noted that this word was “used as a proper name of the morning star” (Ibid.).
     
  3. Logos1560

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    Many may be unaware of the fact that Cambridge editions of the KJV along with some others took away the capitalization of "Lucifer" at Isaiah 14:12, making it a common noun instead of a proper noun, for around 100 years. This was done in the 1629 and 1638 standard Cambridge KJV editions in which two of the KJV translators were said to be involved as editors.


    Isaiah 14:12 [capitalization]
    O lucifer (1675, 1679, 1709, 1715, 1720, 1747, 1754, 1765, 1768 Oxford) [1629, 1637, 1638, 1683, 1743, 1747, 1756, 1760, 1762, 1765, 1767, 1768, 1783 Cambridge] {1672, 1711, 1735, 1741, 1747, 1750, 1760, 1764, 1767, 1795 London} (1755 Oxon) (1722, 1760, 1769 Edinburgh) (1762 Dublin) (1746 Leipzig) (1782 Aitken)

    O Lucifer (1758, 1769 Oxford, SRB) [1769 Cambridge, DKJB] {1611 London}
     
  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Many KJV-only advocates tend to ignore or are unaware of the historical evidence concerning the meaning of "Lucifer" in the 1500's and 1600's.

    The 1534 Luther’s German Bible, which is on the KJV-only line of good Bibles, has “morgen stern” [morning star] at Isaiah 14:12. In his lectures on Isaiah concerning this verse, Martin Luther indicated that the Hebrew word “denotes the morning star, called Lucifer and the son of Dawn” (Luther’s Works, Vol. 16, p. 140). According to this translation of his own comments, Luther’s rendering was likely the result of the influence of the Latin Vulgate or at the very least his rendering “morning star“ was intended to mean the same as “Lucifer.” Of the earlier English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision, the 1535 Coverdale’s Bible first used “Lucifer” at Isaiah 14:12. Miles Coverdale is said to have translated primarily from the German with guidance from the Latin, and he is not known to have had a manuscript copy of the old Wycliffe‘s Bible. Is it possible that Coverdale’s rendering “Lucifer” was his translation for Luther’s German Bible’s “morgen stern?” Does this evidence suggest that the rendering “Lucifer” may have been first introduced into the English Bible from the direct or indirect influence of the Latin Vulgate?


    Since the Hebrew word in this verse occurs only once in the whole Old Testament, it was perhaps easy for English translators to follow this interpretation of the Latin translators. Lucifer was the Latin name for the planet Venus when it appears as the morning star. The Liberty Annotated Study Bible confirmed that "the name Lucifer is actually the Latin designation for the morning star" (p. 1038). The 1968 Cassell's New Latin Dictionary indicated that the Latin word "lucifer" comes from two root words meaning "light-bearing, light-bringing" and that it would be translated into English as "Lucifer, the morning star, the planet Venus." According to the English-Latin section of this dictionary, the translation of "morning-star" in English is given as "lucifer" in Latin. The Oxford Latin Dictionary gave two definitions for lucifer: “light-bringing, light-bearing” and “the morning star” (p. 1045). The Oxford Dictionary of Word Histories affirmed that Lucifer is “a Latin word originally, meaning ’light-bringing, morning star” (p. 309). At its entry for day-star, John White listed “lucifer” as its meaning in Latin (Latin-English Dictionary, p. 100). For Lucifer, this definition is given: “the morning-star, the planet Venus” (p. 355).


    At the end of Isaiah 14, the 1549 edition of Matthew’s Bible has some notes that include these words: “Lucifer, the morning star, which he calleth the child of the morning, because it appeared only in the morning.”

    The marginal note in the 1560 and 1599 editions of the Geneva Bible for this word included the following: "for the morning star that goeth before the sun is called Lucifer." These two notes from two pre-1611 English Bibles that are on the KJV-only view’s line of good Bibles provide clear credible evidence concerning the meaning of the word "Lucifer" in English in the 1500's. The 1657 English translation of the 1637 Dutch States-General Version and Dutch Annotations also indicated this meaning with its rendering "O morning-star" at Isaiah 14:12.


    What did the KJV translators themselves mean by the choice of the word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12? The 1611 KJV gives in its margin the literal meaning or acceptable alternative translation for "Lucifer" as "daystar." The KJV translators were aware of the marginal note in the Geneva Bible, and they would have recognized that their marginal note at this verse would have associated this meaning “daystar” or “morning star” with this rendering “Lucifer.“

    In a sermon, KJV translator Lancelot Andrewes referred to "St Peter's Lucifer in cordibus [daystar in your hearts]" (Hewison, Selected Writings, p. 112). Clearly, Andrewes used the word Lucifer in his sermon with this understood meaning “daystar.“ Daystar is Old English for morning star. A 1672 edition of the KJV has the following note at Isaiah 14:12: “for the morning-star that goeth before the sun is called Lucifer.“

    Thus, several credible sources from the 1500’s and 1600’s clearly establish how this word “Lucifer” was commonly used and understood in that time period.
     
  5. robycop3

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    According to a rabbi I consulted, the Hebrew word translated 'Lucifer' in the KJV is "halel", which means 'bringer of light'. Thus, someone who carries a lit lamp into a dark room would be a halel. he said it was also used in reference to planets or bright stars, especially Venus.

    And the AV 1611 has this marginal note for 'Lucifer': "Or, O day starre".
     
  6. Phillip3

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    Latin definition for Latin word "lucifer"

    Latin word lucifer

    As an adjective, the Latin word lucifer meant "light-bringing" and was applied to the moon. As a noun, it meant "morning star", or, in Roman mythology, its divine personification as "the fabled son of Aurora[46] and Cephalus, and father of Ceyx", or (in poetry) "day".[6] The second of the meanings attached to the word when used as a noun corresponds to the image in Greek mythology of Eos, the goddess of dawn, giving birth to the morning star Phosphorus.[46]

    Isaiah 14:12 is not the only place where the Vulgate uses the word lucifer. The Vulgate uses the same word in contexts where it clearly has no reference to a fallen angel: 2 Peter 1:19 (meaning "morning star"), Job 11:17 ("the light of the morning"), Job 38:32 ("the signs of the zodiac") and Psalms 110:3 ("the dawn").[47] To speak of the morning star, lucifer is not the only expression that the Vulgate uses: three times it uses stella matutina: Sirach 50:6 (referring to the actual morning star), and Revelation 2:28 (of uncertain reference) and 22:16 (referring to Jesus).

    Other indications that in Christian tradition the Latin word lucifer did not carry connotations of a fallen angel are the names of Bishops Lucifer of Cagliari and Lucifer of Siena, and its use in the Easter Proclamation prayer to God regarding the paschal candle: Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat: ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum. Christus Filius tuus, qui, regressus ab inferis, humano generi serenus illuxit, et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum (May this flame be found still burning by the Morning Star: the one Morning Star who never sets, Christ your Son, who, coming back from death's domain, has shed his peaceful light on humanity, and lives and reigns for ever and ever). In the works of Latin grammarians, Lucifer, like Daniel, was discussed as an example of a personal name.[48]
     
  7. Phillip3

    Phillip3
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    KJVO shock

    Hey Robycop,

    I wonder how many of the KJVO crowd says about the Vulgate using the word "lucifer" in the book of Revelations when it is a descriptive term for Jesus?

    If they say its a Catholic book so its corrupt then you have to ask why their translators used it to fill in the missing portions of manuscripts making up the TR.
     
  8. Logos1560

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    Gleason Archer noted: "The title Helel, which KJV (following the Latin Vulgate) translates 'Lucifer,' is rendered Hesphoros in the Septuagint (meaning 'Dawn-bringer' and referring to the morning star)" (Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties, p. 268). This LXX rendering was said to be the common Greek name for Venus as the morning star.

    William Wilson pointed out that the meaning of the Hebrew word according to the Septuagint and Vulgate was "brilliant star, i.e. Lucifer, the morning star" (O. T. Word Studies, p. 261).
     
  9. Logos1560

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    Several Bible scholars think that a better literal translation of the
    Hebrew Helel is "shining one" or perhaps "shining star" with star implied. For example, G. Rawlinson stated: "The word translated 'Lucifer' means properly 'shining one,' and no doubt here designates a star" (Pulpit Commentary, X, p. 245). Hasting’s Dictionary of the Bible defined the Hebrew word Helel as the “shining one” (III, p. 159).

    KJV-only author Kirk DiVietro acknowledged that a literal meaning of the Hebrew word was "shining thing" (Anything But the KJB, p. 46). KJV defender D. A. Waite wrote: "If you look up helel, the masculine noun, you see the meaning is 'the shining one'" (Foes, p. 56). He added: “’Shining one’ is certainly a good translation” (p. 56). In his commentary Understanding the Bible, David Sorenson, a KJV-only author, asserted that the Hebrew word “has the sense of a ‘shining one,‘ or ‘light bearer,‘ or even ‘morning star’” (p. 428). In David Cloud’s Concise KJB Dictionary, this definition of the Hebrew word “shining one” is listed as the definition for “Lucifer” (p. 57).

    The Criswell Study Bible affirmed that the Hebrew word helel “means ‘shining one’” (p. 794). The 2002 Zondervan KJV Study Bible also maintained that “the Hebrew for ‘Lucifer’ is literally ‘shining one’” (p. 975).

    At least four English translations use "O shining one" at Isaiah 14:12 (Young's Literal Translation, Rotherham's The Emphasized Bible, 1912 Improved Edition, and Tanakh--the 1985 English translation of the Masoretic Text by Jews). The Literal Translation by Jay Green and the Modern King James Version have "O shining star" at this verse.
     
  10. robycop3

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    Now, we don't wanna place too much stress on the KJVOs by confronting them with too many FACTS. They have enuff headaches from having to constantly be inventing new excuses trying to justify their myth.
     
  11. prophet

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    Isa 14:12
    12 A! Lucifer, that risidist eerli, hou feldist thou doun fro heuene; thou that woundist folkis, feldist doun togidere in to erthe.
    (WYC)

    Now this makes sense. He who "rised early" is called "son of the morning", and he fell.
    What goes up, must come down.

    So here you have some insight, as to the meaning of the 'morning' Sun, Son, or Star.
     

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