1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

luke 18:16

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Harold Garvey, Dec 19, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Says one who doesn't understand Scripture apparently.

    Sad.
     
  2. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0

    To use the modern version to interpret the KJV is to invite an anachronism. It seems clear to me that the various versions do not always translate passages in the same way. So we cannot always determine the meaning of one translation by another. In fact, to do so would negate the (oft stated) advantage of comparing versions.

    A.F.
     
  3. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't disagree with the Bible at all, but the NIV taken alone without comparing it to other versions G Ives the wrong impression
     
  4. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,850
    Likes Received:
    1,084
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't understand how the impression is wrong. In Matthew Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is theirs (referring to the poor in spirit and those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake). Does that not mean that the kingdom belongs to them? If not, what did Jesus mean?
     
  5. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    I belong to the kingdom and I am a part of it. Thanks to Jesus I belong in God's Kingdom, but I find it hard to say it belongs to me when it's God's Kingdom.
     
  6. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    James 2:5 "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"
     
  7. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point is when the verse is without other related verses in the KJV there's no room for thinking anything other than the kingdom consists of those belonging there, but I can't say the same about the verse alone in the NIV
     
  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Sorry you can't understand what is clearly stated in the text.
     
  9. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    Harold has a Camaro!! Worldling!!!


    :laugh:
     
  10. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    We're discussing the text, not my ability or inability to understand the text. Let the truth be known, if one hadn't known the text before and were left To a literal interpretation of the NIV, which is supposed to be THE literal interpretation, they'd be faced with having to research it out to understand this verse in it. I understand the verse, and I understood it long before even hearing of the NIV.
     
  11. Forever settled in heaven

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    But when was one's kneejerk understanding ever a criterion for Bible version choice or validity?

    If the shoe were on the other foot, won't u KJBOs suggest that one's gotta be more spiritual to comprehend things that are divine, or somesuch? :laugh:

    Hmm, how come I seem to know all the KJBOist doublestandards? :sleep:
     
  12. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    TURNING to the KJV to explain the NIV!!! Who could ask for a better example or source for clarity?
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    See, I quote the KJV in deference to you, Harold. I do that sort of thing. While I am most certainly not KJVO or even use the KJV often myself, I will use it when arguing with those who are KJVO to make a point.

    But if you'd like it in another version, here you go:

    NIV: Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

    ESV: Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

    NASB: Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?


    So in whatever version you read, it says the same thing.

    You said:

    So you say that the kingdom does not belong to you but James clearly tells us that we are heirs of the kingdom. It DOES belong to us because of the fact that we are sons and daughters of God and will inherit all that He's promised to us. I guess maybe the KJV isn't very clear to you in this regard although it says the same thing ANY version says. The kingdom of God is ours.
     
  14. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    1
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Instead of ripping one verse from its context, try actually looking at what else is there. When you take verse 17 along with verse 16, the meaning it crystal clear.

    People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."
    (Luk 18:15-17 NIV)

    And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
    (Luk 18:15-17 KJV)

    Proof-texting to try to prove a point doesn't score points with anyone.
     
  15. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    But isn't every verse supposed to be taken as a stand-alone? I mean, Luke himself made sure that each verse was clearly delineated, didn't he?
     
  16. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    1
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I needed a good laugh this morning, Ann. Much appreciated. ;)
     
  17. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    An common KJVOist hypicrosy: Criticize the use of a word in the KJV, and it's an attack. Criticize the use of a word in any other translation, and it's okay.

    What does the koine Greek say? It says
    gar toioutwn estin h basileia tou qeou

    Which here means, "for the kingdom of God belongs to such".
    It's interesting that HG compains about people not understanding the word "suffer" yet he doesn't understand that phrase "of such is". In Middle English, "of such is" contextually meant the same thing as "belongs to" today.

    HG, you're 0 for 2, "meat offering" being the first, and this being the second.
     
    #37 Johnv, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2009
  18. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ann, the poor in spirit, not the poor of this world. The rich can't be rich in faith? LOL those who come to Christ as a trusting little child, spiritually, make up God's Kingdom and therefore have a position in Christ. The doctrine is positional adherence, not posessive aquisition. NIV term is a poor choice
     
  19. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The koine greek disagrees with you, as does Middle English. The context of the English rendering in the KJV was indeed belonging. The meaning of the Middle ENglish has changed when the language evolced to Modern English.

    The KJV/Bishop's rendering was contextually accurate in its day. It is no longer accurate today. When you say the context of belonging is wrong, then you're actually claiming the KJV authors erred.
     
    #39 Johnv, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2009
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I'm sorry but the text disagrees with you.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...