Lying?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by dianetavegia, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. dianetavegia

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    I have my own opinion but wanted to know if the majority agree with me.

    Is it lying if you don't correct someone when they assume something and are incorrect.

    Example: Someone compliments you on your diamond earrings but they're just glass.

    Is it lying if you imply something that isn't completely true and others assume something about you because of it?

    Example: You introduce your wife and children to the boss but they're her children from 2 previous marriages and your birth children aren't even in your life.

    Is leaving out details that would change everything lying?

    Example: You 'talk yourself up' when applying for a job but forget to tell the boss that your experiences are not directly related to the job you're applying for.

    If someone is discussing something such as alcoholism or adultery and you have been hurt by such behavior but are not the offender, you withold that information to protect your repentant spouse, are you lying?
     
  2. MargoWriter

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    I think in some of these it is lying, in others not. For instance, if I had adopted children I would introduce them as my children--they would be mine regardless of whether they were my birth children or not--same goes for if they were from a spouse's previous marriage.

    I knew a lady who had two adopted children. She said she doesn't mind if people know they are adopted--but it's not a big deal. They're her kids. [​IMG]

    I mean, most people just assume that your kids are your birth kids. Is it wrong for us to assume that?

    I was wearing a ring once and someone assumed it was onyx. I said, "no, it's just a cheap fake." A friend of mine told me, "That's when you just say say yes." I definately think that would be wrong.
     
  3. menageriekeeper

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    Interesting question Diane.

    I don't think that withholding information is necessarily lying. It could be, or it could just be that the person asking just doesn't really have a need to know.

    Now, If someone asked me if my diamonds were real, I'd answer based on which pair I was wearing. But if they just passed by with a compliment such as, "I just love those diamonds your wearing!" and kept on walking, I wouldn't chase them down just to make sure they knew they weren't real. It's just not something they have to know right at that moment.

    As for the children question, I often keep my kids friends. Son's best friend calls himself my second son or my other son and brother to my son. They have been best friends since they were two, so there is a very close relationship that for the most part isn't anyone else's concern. If they really need to know, or are just amazed that I have a half dozen kids, I tell the truth. But if the question si more along the lines of "are you responsible for these kids?" I'm going to say yes, whether or not the person asking uses those exact words.

    One more example, my sister and I are NOT biological sisters nor did either of our parents adopt one or both of us. This is a title we use to describe our close relationship and make it somewhat easier on both of us since most people assume we are sisters whether or not we say a word. Sister and I look like sisters physically, we also sound like each other and have some of the very same mannerisms. She owns a bridal shop and sometimes I help out. I can't tell you the number of times I've had a customer come and say to me "Your sister said..."

    Our husbands thought it was so funny that they were the ones to first start saying things like "your sister is on the phone..."

    So, if someone asks me a direct question I will either tell the truth or tell them it's none of their concern. As for what other people assume, I'm not responsible for that.
     
  4. Gib

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    I don't think leaving out the details in every situation is lying. Many folks like their privacy and don't want to share everything.

    Now, beefing up yourself to a boss or anyone else is dishonest. I should know. I'm the greatest.
     
  5. dianetavegia

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    Now see, I think they're all lying except in the last instance where it's not the spouse's place to share the past sins of a repentant spouse except in certain circumstances such as privately contacting another wife going through something similar in an effort to help her endure.

    I always offer that Nick is our son but that we adopted from our daughter. We've had people assume we're in a second marriage which is a MAJOR insult to both Jim and myself! Also, we're open about his adoption and answer any and all the many questions people ask.

    I have some pretty earrings that appear to be emeralds and diamonds. I got them for less than $1.00 from Concepts on the internet because I'm allergic to anything but rhodium steel earrings or gold. If someone compliments me on my emerald earrings I quickly tell them where I got them and the cost. I've even linked them so they can buy at such a good price.

    I think implying one thing or leaving out details that make people assume you are something you aren't IS lying. I don't have a college degree. I attended 2 colleges tho. If I were to just respond with where I went to college and imply I had graduated, that's lying to me.

    I think the instances Cindi gave aren't open to full replies. Someone in passing making a remark about the slew of kids in her car is not the same as someone saying 'Are those your children?'

    Adopted children ARE your children so how one answers is up to them. I'd be quick to share about the adoption because I never wanted Nick to have to explain his situation. Everyone at church, other than new members who haven't met us yet, knows our situation.

    I believe Christians are to be above reproach and shouldn't imply things that aren't true or lie on purpose.

    I got to thinking about this because a friend at church has a VERY hyper son. She called me yesterday wanting me to help her decide about putting her children in school next year. I was very honest about how I see her son and how I think the public school will see him and recommended she put him in our church preschool first to give him a chance to mature and calm down. She seemed to really appreciate me being honest with her.
     
  6. MargoWriter

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    Diane, good stuff.

    I have chased a few ppl down after realizing I'd been misleading. Usually they just look at me and say, "What? Oh that. Never mind. I didn't even think about it."

    Something I still wonder about concerns something I heard in an ethics class. One teacher made argument for lying to the enemies of God. He said that under certain circumstances it is acceptable to mislead those would would do harm to God's people. I don't see that as right.

    He gave the example from the Bible of the midwives who refused to kill the babies. They lied about the situation . . . and were blessed by God.

    I don't think God blessed them because they lied. I think he blessed them inspite of their lie. I think he wanted them to save the children, but they could have done so without lying.

    Where would you draw the line? The Bible says God hates lies. I don't think he would use something that hates.

    :confused:
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    My wife and I were driving home one afternoon and Dr. Laura happened to be on the radio. She was advertising her book on the 10 Commandments and that caught my ear.

    We listened to the next caller who asked Dr. Laura what she should do. It seems that she had received a basket of fruit from a friend out of state. After she received the fruit, she gave it to some family member because she didn't like the fruit that well.

    Her question to Dr. Laura was, "What should I do if my friend calls and asks how I liked the fruit basket?" Dr. Laura's advice was to "lie to her and tell her that you very much enjoyed it."

    I couldn't believe what I heard. After writing a book explaining the significance of the 10 Commandments, she advised a caller to go out and violate the 9th Commandment. I wrote her a letter and, as kind as I know how, I asked her if she realized the hypocrisy in her counsel. She never responded back to me.
     
  8. Thankful

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    When I was in St. Marteen, I was wearing some earrings that are blue with stones that look like diamonds and a woman thought they were real tanzanite and diamonds. In fact they looked very much like the ones being sold in the stores, but I had paid $6.00 for them in a gift shop in the states.

    This woman asked me how many carats they were. I told her I really didn't know and I didn't say they were fake because it would have embarrassed her that she couldn't tell the real from the fake.

    I didn't consider it lying. I didn't know how many carats my earrings were. However, if she had asked me if my earrings were real stones, then I would have told her, no, just costume jewelry.

    Another time, I really did lie about a ring that I was wearing. A man admired a diamond ring that I was wearing and I felt a little threatened. I thanked him, but said, it is just fake.

    Good questions, Diane. Difficult to answer.
     
  9. dianetavegia

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    If our children did something wrong and admitted it, their punishment was less severe than if they lied about what they'd done. We had one who would tell you what he thought you wanted to hear.
     
  10. Bartimaeus

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    Thankful,
    I was a rich man today, I carried approx. 50 carots (sp)in my pocket all around town, then I went home and fed the horses.

    Great topic Diane, but just gotta have some fun.
    Thanks ------Bart
     
  11. Craigbythesea

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    During the six years that I was serving as the pastor of a church, questions of this nature came up frequently. Each question needs to be carefully and prayerfully considered taking into consideration all of the available facts.

    An acquaintance of mine who frequently fellowshipped with us had for several years felt a calling upon his life to become a Church of the Nazarene pastor. For four years he attended a Church of the Nazarene university, majored in religion, and graduated. He then applied for ordination as a minister in the Church of the Nazarene. By this time he knew all of the questions that ministerial candidates are asked, and he knew that one of those questions asked the candidates what their position was on speaking in tongues. The position of the Church of the Nazarene is that speaking in tongues today is definitely not of God, but my friend had been, from his point of view, speaking in tongues for the past few years. So this young man asked me how he should answer that question, and we talked this over in detail. A few days later he told me that he had been ordained, and that oddly enough that question was not asked.

    Also during the six years that I was serving as the pastor of a church, a member of a very violent and vicious gang came to see me on several occasions and related to me details of very violent crimes. The most frightening thing, however, was that this man (whom I shall call Tom in this post) showed no remorse at all for his crimes. He told me of one man whose abdomen he had ripped open with a knife for accidentally knocking over his motorcycle, and I asked Tom if the man had died. Tom gave me a strange look and replied, “I don’t know, I never thought about it.”
    One evening when Tom came to talk to me, a pastor friend and his brother were visiting me and I asked him to talk with this pastor. Tom, my pastor friend, and my friend’s brother went back into my office and talked for a long while. After they had finished talking, Tom and I went to another office and I asked Tom how it went between him and the pastor. He told me that both pastors were really nice and that he liked them, but that they frightened him when they insisted that he was going to spend eternity in hell if he did not repent of his sins and receive Christ’s forgiveness and salvation. I told Tom that only one of the men was a pastor, and that the other man was his brother, an officer of the California Highway Patrol. Tom became exceedingly afraid, knowing that he had just confessed his crimes to an officer of the law, but I assured Tom that the officer would not turn him in.
    Tom continued to come and talk with me, and each time he was more and more frightened of the prospect of spending eternity in hell. And then a period of several weeks went by and I did not see Tom. A group at the church was preparing to leave to go on a retreat, but my girl friend who was also going had not yet arrived and I was becoming a bit annoyed. And just at that moment she arrived and brought a young man, a stranger, into the church with her and told me that he needed to talk to me. I became all the more annoyed, took a look at the young man, and took him into my office for a talk.
    The young man began to share with me what Christ was doing in his life, and I looked at this young man, and looked again, and I realized that this young man was Tom! His countenance had changed so much due to his radical conversion that I didn’t even recognize his face. He told me how a Christian judge was having his criminal record sealed and was petitioning the U.S. Marine Corps to seal his military record also. Accepting Christ as his savior carried the sentence of death by his gang, so the judge got Tom a job driving for a trucking company in another city, and Tom came to share with me that he had been saved and to say good-bye.

    God is sovereign and we all need to remember that at all times and in every situation. God pays a lot more attention to our heart than he does to the technicalities of our manners. The Bible does not tell us everything about Jesus, nor does it tell us everything about the people in the Bible. Does that mean that God is a liar because he held back things from us that we are better off not knowing? Does that mean that Tom is a liar when he holds back details of his life that other people are not ready to deal with in the manner that God would have them to deal with it? I don’t think so. As Christians, we are not under the law, but under grace, and telling the truth is not always graceful and can destroy people’s lives. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but it does help us to have the wisdom necessary to deal with situations in a loving, constructive manner.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. dianetavegia

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    Craig, if that pastoral candidate HAD been asked that question and he gave the 'church' answer instead of what he believes in his heart, I think that would have been a very horrible lie! I think it's extremely important for us, as Christians, to be open and honest in all things.

    I also believe that keeping quiet, in some situations, is the same as lying. I would not stand by and watch a woman be put in charge of our nursery if I'd seen her spank her child violently in public. My 'silence' would be the same as endorsing her behavior.

    I think we've become so immune to lying that 'christians' now lie so much that we have convinced ourselves it's okay or that the truth would serve no good purpose.
     
  13. dianetavegia

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    Another thread made me wonder... If a Christian lies about their sin, are they really repentant? Isn't that just compounding the sin?

    If a Christian makes excuses for their sin, blaming it on someone else and not accepting any responsibility for their actions, are they really repenting of that sin? (The woman you gave me... she gave me the fruit to eat. Adam blamed God and Eve.)

    To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ... I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Revelation 2:1-5

    [ March 10, 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  14. HankD

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    Here is an interesting passage of Scripture:

    Luke 23:3
    And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it...

    Luke 23:9
    Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

    HankD
     
  15. Karen

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    I agree it is important not to leave out details that change things. However, many times in just casually meeting people, they are not really interested in every detail. And if they are, they are too nosy! For example, why would it be necessary to explain in detail to every person you are casually introduced to that Nick is your adopted grandson, born out of wedlock to your daughter? Why would people spend time wondering whether you were in a second marriage? It certainly is not impossible to have children in your forties. Why would they wonder or need to wonder about anything at all about the situation?

    Maybe I am in a part of the country that is less open, but people don't ask each other tons of personal questions here. For that matter, few people that ask, Hi, how are you today? REALLY want to stand there while you tell them. [​IMG]

    Karen
     
  16. dianetavegia

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    I don't know if they'd 'spend time' wondering if it was a second marriage or not but I don't want anyone assuming I'm divorced!
     
  17. 5xBlessed

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    Is it lying if you don't correct someone when they assume something and are incorrect. I think for the most part. Sometimes things just aren't everyone else's business so it's hard for me to say it's lying in every case.

    Example: Someone compliments you on your diamond earrings but they're just glass. I definitely think that's a lie, especially if you answer in a way that leads them to believe your earrings are, in fact, diamonds.

    Is it lying if you imply something that isn't completely true and others assume something about you because of it? Definitely if you're intentionlly implying it.

    Example: You introduce your wife and children to the boss but they're her children from 2 previous marriages and your birth children aren't even in your life. My husband adopted our oldest daughter. I don't for a second believe he's lying when he tells people he has five children. He loves her as though she were his biologically.

    Is leaving out details that would change everything lying? That's a tough one to answer. Again, some things are just very personal and we shouldn't have to share those details just so others don't think we're lying. Maybe it is. I really don't know. I guess for example, if you see a husband and wife out holding hands and showing affection for one another, one might assume they're still deeply in love and have a great marriage when, in fact, they may be on the verge of divorce and trying really hard to make it work. I wouldn't expect someone to share those details with me just because they appeared happy and in love and I commented on it. Not that I WOULD comment on that but you know what I mean.

    Example: You 'talk yourself up' when applying for a job but forget to tell the boss that your experiences are not directly related to the job you're applying for. It is if you're trying to pass it off as experience directly related to the job you're applying for. Some talk themselves up just to show where they've excelled in other job situations.

    If someone is discussing something such as alcoholism or adultery and you have been hurt by such behavior but are not the offender, you withold that information to protect your repentant spouse, are you lying? I think it would be inappropriate of me to share anything personal about my spouse with another person. I'd be very hurt if he did that to me. I guess I can't really consider that lying because, to me, that could damage the marriage.

    I hope my answers make sense. I don't post here much because more than often they don't.

    Lucy
     
  18. gb93433

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    Most of the time in churches things need to be left unsaid.
     
  19. dianetavegia

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    This was a pastoral candidate and certainly he should be straightforward about his beliefs during an interview! He wouldn't last long if he gets up to preach opposite of what the church family believes scripture says.
     
  20. Thankful

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    Not all people who marry a second time are divorced.
     

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