M.R. Vincent re: Election

My problem is neither with Paul nor with God! My problem is with men who mutilate the Scriptures to make God into something less than He is. And when they do so in an especially arrogant manner, I find that to be even more of a problem. No where in the Bible does it state than any man is irrevocably damned to hell while he is still alive. And no where in the Bible does it state that any man is irrevocably saved from hell while he is still alive. Both of these ideas are in direct conflict with very many scriptures.

Dear reader,

Do not be so cocky or arrogant as James Boyce, for the Scriptures expressly say,

1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

 

Who on this BB chose where they would be born???

 

My problem is neither with Paul nor with God! My problem is with men who mutilate the Scriptures to make God into something less than He is. And when they do so in an especially arrogant manner, I find that to be even more of a problem. No where in the Bible does it state than any man is irrevocably damned to hell while he is still alive. And no where in the Bible does it state that any man is irrevocably saved from hell while he is still alive. Both of these ideas are in direct conflict with very many scriptures.

Dear reader,

Do not be so cocky or arrogant as James Boyce, for the Scriptures expressly say,

1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.


</font>[/QUOTE]And your point is?

How do you respond to Ephesians 1:3-6. God's choice of some unto Salvation is very clear in this passage so you are not disputing me or James Boyce but God, but that is your problem. You might also consider the following:

Romans 8:29, 30 [KJV]
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

John 6:37 [KJV] All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Acts 13:48 [KJV] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 13:48 NKJV] Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

 

Craigbythesea?

 

I find it very surprising that anyone would use this text to argue that God, before the foundation of the world, chose to irrevocably elect a certain number of individuals to salvation and to irrevocably damn the rest of mankind to the fires of hell. However, it appears that a few individuals on this message board have never read the passage in context, and that they are not even aware that they are quoting only some of the subordinate clauses from a sentence and entirely ignoring the primary clause in that very sentence! At the moment, I can not imagine anything more absurd but the doctrine itself!

Since you obviously have never read the sentence in question, here it is:

3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
4. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5. having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
7. in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trepasses, according to the riches of his grace,
8. which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9. making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
10. unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,
11. in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will;
12. to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
13. in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,-- in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14. which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In order to assure that it does not get lost in the shuffle, and to be certain that even the readers who are intellectually challenged can understand what he is writing, our apostle places the primary clause at the very beginning of the sentence:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

Where do you find anyone being irrevocably damned to the fires of hell in this clause? Where do you even find the slightest or remotest hint of any doctrine of election in this phrase? The obvious answer is that you don’t! There is absolutely nothing of these sorts in this clause, the primary clause of Paul’s sentence.

But what do we find in this primary clause? We find a eulogistic statement! And when this primary clause is taken together with all of the subordinate clauses, we see that the whole sentence (3-14 both here and in the Greek text) is a most beautiful eulogy of God that some dastardly pernicious individuals like James Boyce have attempted to make into a doctrinal treatise on election! And for any Christian man to allow himself to be beguiled by such a mutilation of such an exquisite eulogy as this with the result that the character and very nature of God disgraced in it is at the very best the absurdity of absurdities!

But the most unholy and conniving atrocities do not end here! Those very persons who are most noted for this mutilation of the word of God in the Holy Scriptures claim that they themselves are irrevocably saved from the fires of hell and yet write that in Rom. 7:14 it is the beloved Apostle Paul writing of his own spiritual state at the time of writing, giving us the greatest imaginable contradiction in all the word of God, that we are foreordained “be holy and without blemish before him in love” while being “carnal, sold under sin.”

Is it any wonder that men like Marvin Vincent who love God and His word are so revolted by this most baneful and horrific wickedness that they can not but help vomit at the very thought of it!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

Yipes!

Honey Chile, looks lak we done got us a full-skale Calvan-Armmeanynan war here! Gimme mah blundre-bust offa de wall! And gimme muh powwder n shot! An'Ah don't mean by powwder that ickypucky youse puts on yer nose in the mornin'!

Scripture clearly shows God has predestined certain people for special service to Him. Moses and Jeremiah are clear OT examples, while Paul is a NT example. However, I do NOT believe God has already decided everyone's destiny, except that He's made two places for everyone to end up & that everyone's gonna end up in one of them, according to his/her actions in this mortal life. Were everyone's destiny already decided, what use would there be for Bibles, preachers, churches, or even Jesus' sacrifice? And how many times did Jesus say, "WHOSOEVER"? How many times did he say,"whosoever, IF PRE-ELECTED"?

"Elect" as an adjective means "chosen but not yet installed". That's what WE are...chosen by Jesus' grace as citizens in the Kingdom of God, but not there yet. And JESUS set the condition for His electing anyone...BELIEF IN HIM.

The devil and his angels are NOT given the chance to repent, far as we know. I believe that's because they had access to God at any time, and that they had seen Him face-to-face, and had a much-greater knowledge of Him than any mortal man has ever had.

By Scripture, I believe the truth lies somewhere between the extremes of Hyper-Calvinism and hyper-Arminianism. God pre-chooses some for Himself, but I do NOT believe He has ever condemned anyone to hell before he/she was born. JESUS EVEN GAVE JUDAS SEVERAL CHANCES TO REPENT before He was arrested.

 

Quote By Craigbythesea
--------------------------------------------------
"And no where in the Bible does it state that any man is irrevocably saved from hell while he is still alive."
--------------------------------------------------

CBTS would you please explain this statement

 

I have expressed my thought here as clearly as I know how to express it.

 

I find it very surprising that anyone would use this text to argue that God, before the foundation of the world, chose to irrevocably elect a certain number of individuals to salvation and to irrevocably damn the rest of mankind to the fires of hell. However, it appears that a few individuals on this message board have never read the passage in context, and that they are not even aware that they are quoting only some of the subordinate clauses from a sentence and entirely ignoring the primary clause in that very sentence! At the moment, I can not imagine anything more absurd but the doctrine itself!

Since you obviously have never read the sentence in question, here it is:

3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:
4. even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5. having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
7. in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trepasses, according to the riches of his grace,
8. which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9. making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
10. unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say,
11. in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will;
12. to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
13. in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,-- in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14. which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In order to assure that it does not get lost in the shuffle, and to be certain that even the readers who are intellectually challenged can understand what he is writing, our apostle places the primary clause at the very beginning of the sentence:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

Where do you find anyone being irrevocably damned to the fires of hell in this clause? Where do you even find the slightest or remotest hint of any doctrine of election in this phrase? The obvious answer is that you don’t! There is absolutely nothing of these sorts in this clause, the primary clause of Paul’s sentence.

But what do we find in this primary clause? We find a eulogistic statement! And when this primary clause is taken together with all of the subordinate clauses, we see that the whole sentence (3-14 both here and in the Greek text) is a most beautiful eulogy of God that some dastardly pernicious individuals like James Boyce have attempted to make into a doctrinal treatise on election! And for any Christian man to allow himself to be beguiled by such a mutilation of such an exquisite eulogy as this with the result that the character and very nature of God disgraced in it is at the very best the absurdity of absurdities!

But the most unholy and conniving atrocities do not end here! Those very persons who are most noted for this mutilation of the word of God in the Holy Scriptures claim that they themselves are irrevocably saved from the fires of hell and yet write that in Rom. 7:14 it is the beloved Apostle Paul writing of his own spiritual state at the time of writing, giving us the greatest imaginable contradiction in all the word of God, that we are foreordained “be holy and without blemish before him in love” while being “carnal, sold under sin.”

Is it any wonder that men like Marvin Vincent who love God and His word are so revolted by this most baneful and horrific wickedness that they can not but help vomit at the very thought of it!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

</font>[/QUOTE]Heh Craigbythesea

Spin the above passage any dastardly and pernicious way that suits your vanity, nevertheless, the passage still states that God chose certain individusls unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

Heh! Craigbythesea a little advice. Don't vomit on your keyboard it may short out.

Now try your luck at spinning Romans 8:29, 30, John 6:37, and Acts 13:48.

 

Pleeeease, I was wondering if a person can know that he or she is "saved". By this statement it sounds like you can't.

 

I wonder what God meant when He caused the Apostle Paul to write the following:

Romans 9:14-24
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

Dear JBE,

YES! You CAN know if you have been saved! When people are saved, they become new creatures in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). The man that was ceases to be, and a new man comes to life . . . a new man with new morals, new attitudes, new goals, new perspectives, and a personal relationship with God.

P.S. If this does not help, please ask more questions.

 

Are you denying that the genre of literature that we have in Eph. 1:3-14 is eulogistic literature? If you are denying this, please post the data that shows that it is not.

In the meantime, let’s take a look at the characteristics of eulogistic literature. Better yet, let’s simplify this so that those with less than advanced degrees from a university or seminary can understand the issue here.

What does the word eulogistic mean?
“Eulogistic” is the cognate adjective of the noun “eulogy.” The word “eulogy” comes from the Greek word eulogia from eu well, from the neuter of eys good + logia from logos word. Merriam-Webster’s Colligate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, 2003, gives this definition:

2: High praise

Thus eulogistic literature is literature the purpose and nature of which is to give “high praise.”

It is very different from doctrinal literature in the Bible which is full of “if”s, “and”s and “but”s in that eulogistic literature may include many “and”s, but the “if”s and “but”s are suppressed just as they are in eulogies at funerals where only words praising the deceased are used even though in reality words of praise reveal only a part of the story (and often only a small part of the story).

In doctrinal literature in the New Testament we read things like these:

Matt. 24:13. "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

John 8:31. So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

John 15:10. "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Acts 14:22. strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, "Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God."

Rom 2:5. But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6. who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7. to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8. but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Gal. 4:11. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

Gal. 6: 9. Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Col. 1:21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

1 Thess. 3:5. For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain.

Heb. 3:6. but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house--whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Heb. 3:14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Heb. 10:36. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37. FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38. BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

2 Pet. 2:20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."


The purpose and nature of doctrinal literature is to teach doctrine. The purpose and nature of eulogistic literature is to give high praise unto God. The purpose and nature of a saw is to saw. The purpose and nature of a hammer is to hammer. A hammer will not saw a board, but it will shatter a board into pieces. Let’s not use a hammer to rightly divide the word of God.

 

Did you post this reply to prove to me that you have been irrevocably elected to salvation? Personally, I do not find it to be especially convincing.

Let’s first take at least a brief look at Rom. 8:29-30,

29. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30. and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Well, it looks as if we have here a very clear doctrinal passage teaching the very same that James Boyce taught. And we find the same thing in these passages,

Deut. 32:39. 'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god . . . It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver . . . .

1 King 8:23. "there is no God . . . keeping covenant and showing lovingkindness to Your servants who walk before You with all their heart,

2 Kings 1: 16. “there is no God in Israel to inquire of His word"

2 Kings 5:15. "Behold now, I know that there is no God in all the earth"

2 Chron. 6: 14. "there is no god . . . keeping covenant and showing lovingkindness”

Psalm 14: 1. "There is no God."

Isa. 43:10. "You are My witnesses, . . . there was no God.”


As we found in Ephesians chapter one, and as we see above, when words are taken out of their context they can be manipulated to teach something VERY DIFFERENT from what they actually teach. So let’s be honest and put Rom. 8:29-30 back into its context,

28. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30. and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
31. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32. He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33. Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
34. who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36. Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
37. But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39. nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Reach into you pocket and take out coin. Seriously, reach into you pocket and take out a coin. Now look at the flat surface of it. What do you see? Now turn it over and look at the other side of the coin. It’s different, isn’t it? Very different! All coins have two sides. Now read again Rom. 8:28-39. How many sides do you see of the many doctrines touched upon in this passage? I see only one side! But there is always the other side of the coin even though we do not find it here like we do in other parts of the Bible.

What is the author’s purpose in this passage? Is it to urge lost souls to place their faith in Christ for his forgiveness and salvation? No, it is not. Is it to warn wayward Christians of the dangers of apostasy? No, it is not. Is to teach the doctrine of election? No, it is not. The author’s purpose in this passage is clearly to shore up the readers in their Christian faith.

There are multitudes of passages urging lost souls to place their faith in Christ for his forgiveness and salvation. There are multitudes of passages warning wayward Christians of the dangers of apostasy. But the Apostle Paul’s purpose in this passage is clearly to shore up the readers in their Christian faith.

He's Got the Whole World in His Hands

1. He´s got the whole world in His hands,
|: He´s got the whole world in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

2. He´s got the wind and the rain in His hands,
|: He´s got the wind and the rain in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

3. He´s got the the tiny little baby in His hands,
|: He´s got the the tiny little baby in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

4. He´s got you and me, brother, in His hands,
|: He´s got you and me, brother, in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

5. He's got ev'rybody here in His hands.
|: He's got ev'rybody here in His hands. :|
He's got the whole world in His hands.

1. He´s got the whole world in His hands,
|: He´s got the whole world in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.
He's got the earth and sky in his hands;
He's got the night and day in his hands;
He's got the sun and moon in his hands;
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

2. He´s got the whole world in His hands,
|: He´s got the whole world in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.
He's got the land and sea in his hands;
He's got the wind and rain in his hands;
He's got the spring and fall in his hands;
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

3. He´s got the whole world in His hands,
|: He´s got the whole world in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.
He's got the young and old in his hands;
He's got the rich and poor in his hands;
Yes, he's got ev'ry one in his hands;
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

He´s got the whole world in His hands,
|: He´s got the whole world in His hands, :|
He´s got the whole world in His hands.

 

Man often wins the skirmish, but God always win the battle.

Every time God commands, “Do not sin,” and the man yet sins, he is proving that he is able to thwart the will of God. Nonetheless, the man always suffers loss as the consequence of his disobedience.

Some find the idea of man thwarting the will of God inconceivable, but the Scriptures tell us that our sovereign God chose to give man the option of both obedience and disobedience. Had God chosen not to do this, of course man could only obey, but the Scriptures tell us very plainly that the man whom God created did not always choose to yield to God’s will, but very often chose to do his own thing—very much to his own destruction!

</font>[/QUOTE]I like the example of God telling Moses to speak to the rock to bring forth water. What was God's will...that Moses SPEAK to the rock. What did Moses do, his own will. He struck the rock! But heres the kicker. What was the final outcome of all this. Water still came forth from the rock. God's will was done dispite man. I look at it the same way. Man has free will but God's will will always be done. Can I really understand it, nope but I am sure we can see type of example throughout scritpure.

Tim

 

I have expressed my thought here as clearly as I know how to express it.

</font>[/QUOTE]And you have done quit well. I have enjoyed your posts. They took all questions head and where concise and clear.
I really wonder why calvinist say God's grace can only be fully understood by believing in a God who allows some to be saved and others condemned to hell. I wonder if they have kids or loved ones. Do they not want all to go to be with the father? Does that mean I have more love for people then our heavenly Father. I mean I litterly would not want even my worst enemy to go to hell. Do they tell their kids and loved ones, gee I hope you are one of the elect but if not isn't God wonderful.

Just rambling,
Tim

 

OldRegular wrote,

I have posted above the correct interpretation of Romans 8:29-30. I shall now address John 6:37,

John 6:37. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. (NASB, 1995)

Dear friends,

Have we not all seen this advertisement:

Everything 50% off!*

*Certain restrictions apply. See store for details.

We find something very much like this in the Bible:

John 6:37. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.*

*Certain restrictions apply. See Nave’s Topical Bible for details:

Apostasy
Described
Deu_13:13; Heb_3:12
Caused by persecution
Mat_24:9-10; Luk_8:13
Caused by worldliness
2Ti_4:10
Guilt and punishment of
Zep_1:4-6; Heb_10:25-31; Heb_10:39; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_2:20-22
Cautions against
Heb_3:12; 2Pe_3:17
Shall abound in the latter days
Mat_24:12; 2Th_2:3; 1Ti_4:1-3

Unclassified scriptures relating to
General references
Deu_32:15; 1Ch_28:9; Isa_1:28; Isa_65:11-16; Jer_17:5-6; Eze_3:20; Eze_18:24; Eze_18:26; Eze_33:12-13; Eze_33:18; Mat_13:20-21; Mar_4:5-17; Luk_8:13; Mat_24:10; Mat_24:12; Luk_11:24-26; Joh_15:6; Act_7:39-43; 1Co_9:27; 2Th_2:3; 2Th_2:11-12; 1Ti_4:1-2; 2Ti_3:1-9; 2Ti_4:3-4; Heb_6:4-8; Heb_10:26-29; 2Pe_2:1; 2Pe_2:15; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_2:20-22; 2Pe_3:17; Jud_1:4-6

Instances of:
Israelites
Ex 32; Num 14
Saul
1Sa_15:26-29; 1Sa_18:12; 1Sa_28:15; 1Sa_28:18
Amaziah
2Ch_25:14; 2Ch_25:27
Disciples
Joh_6:66
Judas
Mat_26:14-16; Mat_27:3-5; Mar_14:10-11; Luk_22:3-6; Luk_22:47-48; Act_1:16-18
Hymenaeus and Alexander
1Ti_1:19-20
Phygellus and Hermogenes
2Ti_1:15

Additional Scriptures Upon Request