MacArthur's Ignorant Misrepresentation of Catholic Teaching

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by lori4dogs, May 21, 2010.

  1. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs
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    Not long ago, a poster on BB gave a link to a video with John MacArthur attempting to trash Catholicism. I noticed big misrepresentations of what the Catholic Church teaches. The most glaring error was his reference to Purgatory as being 'a second chance for salvation'.

    I stumbled on to this site which lists a many other errors he makes in his teachings on Catholicism such as him stating that the Catholic Church teaches the 'Virgin Birth of Mary'! Is this OK? Are these kinds of lies alright as long as it 'brings people out of the Great Whore'?

    http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a137.htm
     
  2. Thinkingstuff

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    I haven't seen the video. However, a common view of non-Catholics is that If Mary had to be Immaculately Conceived for Jesus to be born; then does it stand to reason there must be a whole line of untainted people? Else if Mary's mother was sinful then isn't the trait passed on to Mary by virtue of birth?

    Also note that the doctrine of the Immaculate conseption was defined by Pius the IX having an over reaction to the Italian revolution. In which he defined "immaculate conseption" and "papal infallibility" at once as can be seen in the Syllabus of Errors and the 1st Vatican council. These very issues lead Europe to separate from the Catholic Church and to the Old Catholic Church founded at Ultrech almost obliterating Roman Catholicism from the world together with protestantism. Now since these two issues are modern definition is it possible as has been determined in his syllabus of errors that Pius the IX went to far in defining this dogma thus creating a cult?
     
  3. BobRyan

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    I agree that accuracy is key and that it makes no sense to accuse the Catholic church of teaching that the moon is made out of blue cheese - when such a complaint can be so easily shot down as baseless.

    I see the reference where MacArthur said something about the "virgin birth of Mary" - which is certainly not a teaching of the RCC. He should have said the "immaculate conception of Mary".

    I don't know of any Baptists or followers of MacArthur that go around claiming that they think Catholics teach that Mary was born of a virgin just as Christ was. I could be wrong - but this does not seem to be anything that I have heard them repeating.

    The problem with Purgatory is much more common. I hear all the time from non-Catholics that they think Purgatory is another chance to either go to heaven or hell. This is simply a common misunderstanding among non-Catholics - and I do my best to inform the people I meet that Catholics claim that everyone that goes to Purgatory will eventually go to heaven.

    It is kind of like the OSAS problem - I find a lot of people who reject the man-made tradition of OSAS - tend to paint all OSAS-believers as being those that reject the perseverance of the saints (a path Zenas took on this board recently).

    Clearly 3 and 5 point Calvinists hold strictly to the Perseverance of the saints teaching as well as OSAS - it is only the 4-point Calvinists that reject Perseverance and use that to come up with a more "bulletproof OSAS". (Though still wrong of course)

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. lori4dogs

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    As you know, doctrines are only defined when something comes up that needs clarification. Also, when the magisterium thinks the laity can be assisted by emphasis brought out on an already existing belief. I believe these two issues to be an example of the latter.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    many catholics of the time felt it was inappropiate to define the doctrine which is why they left. Did Pius the IX over step his bounds?
     
  6. lori4dogs

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    I agree Bob, accuracy is key. MacArthur makes ridiculous and inaccurate claims about 'papal infallibility' as well. He says "He never makes a mistake, and nothing he says, therefore, can ever be altered." Which is total nonsense. Over the years on this board more than a few anti-Catholics have claimed that the Catholic Church teaches that the 'pope is sinless'. If that were true I would wonder why the pope feels it necessary to go to confession.
     
  7. lori4dogs

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    If this dogma was not what the Church had been saying all along, then I believe Pius X would have been over stepping his bounds. I believe that when speaking to all Christians as head of the Church and defining matters of faith and morals, the Pope through the Holy Spirit is protected from error. My Old Catholic friends differ with me on this one.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Agreed - some of those are also common mistakes.

    However the argument about the Pope only being infallible when he speaks "ex cathedra" is a point of clarification that only came about in the 19th century. (1870).

    And the claim for infalliblity though only formally stated late in the 19th century is meant to apply retroactively to all centuries as well as the clarification about ex cathedra caveats. Thuse we are taken to centuries before 1870 when nobody was actually saying "yes but we all agree he is only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra, and we all agree on when something is ex cathedra and when it is not".

    hence the confusion.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

    This is from wikki by the way, so it could be off.


    http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

    This whole notion of infallibility rests on the papal doctrine of the primacy of Peter and the popes holding "peter's chair" or that place of primacy.

    Basically, it boils down to ultimate and final authority. True Christians hold to and rest that authority in God alone through the Scriptures. The Scriptures themselves act as the voice of God, the very speaking of God, and then are the rule and judge of all Christians and all Christian doctrine.

    The pope(s) do not possess this authority, nor the magisterium, nor their traditions. Indeed, both the papacy and its traditions are rightly judged by the Scripture, and most certainly not the other way around.
     
  10. Salty

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    Lori

    In accordance with "misrepresenation"

    Are you:

    A. Roman Catholic
    B. Anglican
     
  11. lori4dogs

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    I was Anglican when I became a member of this board, now Roman Catholic. I would be happy to change my profile if someone would tell me how.

    I followed this board for years as a Baptist and an anti-Catholic until becoming convinced that catholic doctrine was biblical.
     
    #11 lori4dogs, May 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2010
  12. lori4dogs

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    BTW, Salty, where are you with people like MacArthur and Jack Chick who teach and publish lies about the Catholic Church. Does the end justify the means?
     
    #12 lori4dogs, May 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2010
  13. DHK

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    Lori, I am glad to see that you treat MacArthur so highly and esteem him as highly as you do the RCC pope. You believe that everything he says is infallible. He is the voice of all Baptists, if not evangelicals. Whatever he says is truth, ex cathedra. You have a very high opinion. Does he also sit in the very place of Christ in your opinion? I would like to know?

    We believe he is a man and is prone to make mistakes from time to time.
    Bob pointed out one to you. But you will forever condemn him for not believing the virgin birth of Christ. How terrible. It looks like you are the terrible sinner here. You need to repent of your sins or you will go to hell and never get even a chance to enter Purgatory, don't you think. Such a hateful spirit you have against all the Protestants and Baptists in the world. Repent Lori, Repent!!!
     
  14. lori4dogs

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    Did you bother to even look at the link I provided? There is not just a mistake or two in his teachings on Catholicism. If he isn't going to speak the truth about what the Catholic Church teaches then he should shut-up about it.

    I have no hateful spirit towards you Protestants. I once was one!
     
  15. DHK

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    Yeah! I was once a Roman Catholic too. And look at the accusations I get from you. Calling the kettle black are you?
    Furthermore if you think I am going to trust a Catholic apologetic website about MacArthur you are crazy. Go and read MacArthur's site for yourself. Why read propaganda that has probably taken things that he has said out of context. I wouldn't touch that site with a ten foot pole.
     
  16. lori4dogs

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    Watched one of his videos on Catholicism, DHK, and he said that the Catholic Church teaches that Purgatory is a 'second chance'. That is not off a Catholic apologetic site, that was out of his mouth. He teaches lies.
     
  17. DHK

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    Maybe you should read what he actually stated instead of making false allegations. Have you read his own writings? Be truthful. Have you? Here is what he says:

    He is quoting from the Council of Trent.

    He is using their words.

    He is drawing conclusions from their statements.



    This is taken from this article.
    http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/jm-233879.htm


    You need to read more on what MacArthur says about Catholicism. There are a number of articles here:


    http://www.biblebb.com/mac-a-g.htm


     
  18. Thinkingstuff

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    where does he get second chance from that quote?
     
  19. ReformedBaptist

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    Arguing that MacArthur said this or didn't say that or whatever seems absurd to me. Lori, if you have a beef with Mr. MacArthur, then call him and face him head on.

    If you want to discuss the doctrines of your church in light of the Scripture then let's discuss those.

    I noticed no one responded to my previous post.
     
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    A lot of Catholics didn't buy it either which is why they went Old Catholic Church
    Remember the Papacy view that its defining of understanding scripture on doctrine faith and morals the Pope has the final say based on it being said in Ex Cathedra consistent with the council of Cardnals. This they see as unifying as 10 people can have 10 opinions to what God has to say with regard to scripture. However, you are right in your very last paragraph the papacy is judged by scripture.
     

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