MacArthur's Ignorant Misrepresentation of Catholic Teaching

It is a different word because it is not the word for grace.
I already showed you how other translations translate it.

It does not translate "full of grace" because there is no "grace" in the expression. Why not try translating the word properly instead of relying on RCC propaganda.

 

If this is true of Mary, then it is also true of every believer. The same greek word that is used in Luke 1:28 is also used in Ephesians 1:13 referring to all believers.

Luk 1:28 AndG2532 theG3588 angelG32 came inG1525 untoG4314 her,G846 and said,G2036 Hail,G5463 thou that art highly favoured,G5487 theG3588 LordG2962 is withG3326 thee:G4675 blessedG2127 art thouG4771 amongG1722 women.G1135

Eph 1:6 ToG1519 the praiseG1868 of the gloryG1391 of hisG848 grace,G5485 whereinG1722 G3739 he hath made us acceptedG5487 G2248 inG1722 theG3588 beloved.G25

G5487
χαριτόω
charitoō
khar-ee-to'-oFrom G5485; to grace, that is, indue with special honor: - make accepted, be highly favoured.

 

Apparently the Catholic teaching on Luke 1:28 comes from the Latin Vulgate - and not the greek text.

The Vulgate has - "ave gratia plena "Hail full of grace.'"

In Greek that would be - plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace) - and that is not what we have in Luke 1:28

Which gets back to my initial question.

If the reason for the doctrine on the immaculate conception of Mary by her mother is based on the need to provide a sinless environment for Christ - and yet Mary is sinless and born to a sinful mother -- then there is no need for Mary to be immaculately conceived since Christ can be born "sinless" from a sinful mother even more efficiently than Mary can - by virtue of the fact that Christ is "incarnated" from a previously existing being - but Mary is "procreated" from her sinful mother and father.

in Christ,

Bob

 

http://www.scborromeo.org/saints/anne.htm

The supposed grandmother of God. Was she immaculately conceived also; sinless also? Why not? Why not perpetuate the myth right back to Eve, or at least to Noah's wife, from whom we all came from.

 

The battle of the myths. <G> "Myth" = story/tradition of beginnings.

 

Then why perpetuate a myth such as the IC?
What you are saying is God is not big enough to bring about the virgin birth with a sinner such as Mary--which she was, and that is how the Bible describes her:
1. One who had to offer a sin offering after the child was born.
2. One who admitted in prayer that she needed a Savior. Only sinners need a Savior.

So you believe in a small and powerless God that He cannot bring about the Virgin Birth of Christ without the Immaculate Conception of Mary? That is quite amazing! You have limited the power of God.

 

I call BS. All the crap about Mary is just that... complete crap. She was just a girl who was willing to be used by God. There was nothing special about her conception, her birth, or her life other than she was faithful. Anything outside of that is RCC fairy tales.

Romans 3:23 applies to all mankind, Mary included. Jesus is the only one who ever lived a sinless life and therefore did not need a savior. Until a child is able to realize what sin is and comprehend it he is not under the Law, but once he reaches that point he falls under Romans 3:23 just like all the rest of Adam's offspring.

Mary was not Jesus. Had she not accepted salvation through Him she would be in Hell right now. We know she did accept salvation, just like all other saved sinners, because it is recorded in God's word for us to see.

 

All the bandwidth that would be saved if God had had the foresight and ability to correct Jesus' DNA after Jesus was born . . . .

 

This is bogus RCC speculation and does not come from the Bible. It is anti-Bible, meaning not only unscriptural, but against the Scriptures--totally contradicting them Not even Karl Keating can work his way out of this own.

So Mr. Keating just threw out the door the long held RCC doctrine of the depravity of man. How convenient. Man is a sinner from birth. At what age does he start sinning. Psalm 58:3 says it is from birth that he starts to sin. All of my children knew what it was to sin before the age of one. They knew the difference between right and wrong.

 

Indeed - Paul says in Romans 3 "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and also in Romans 3 Paul argues that the perfect demands of the law "place the whole world" as accountable before God and in Gal 3 Paul repeats this point.

The entire world is said to be condemned as sinners based on the perfect standard of the Law of God. So "all" - even Mary, need a Savior.

Well that is the part of the story that we don't find in scripture.

Are you claiming that it is true - because of tradition?

If so - why is it no NT writer mentions that tradition?

Or is it something that you think came up after the time of the NT writers?

In Romans 3 Paul argues that the very nature of the sinner is alienated from God when he says "there is NONE righteous no not one. There is NONE who seeks after God".

This would include that small child's sinful nature. Even an infant has to some extent a raging sinful nature that expresses anger and frustration pretty well.

They all need a Savior - they all HAVE a Savior.

There is no reason to believe that Enoch and Elijah are excluded from Paul's inspired statement in Romans 3 that all have sinned. But as you note - all have not sinned to the same degree and Enoch is said to have "walked with God". He was not a raging murderer that is for sure - but he was a sinner that was in need of Gospel salvation.

Thus when God took Enoch and Elijah bodily to heaven without having them die - He was demonstrating the fact that forgiveness in the OT was full and complete - just as also the New Birth of OT saints.

Jesus as the Savior of mankind - set an example for us.

1John 2 tells us that as born-again saints we are to "walk as Jesus walked".

We are never told to "walk as Mary walked" or that Mary was sinless. In fact we are not even told that Mary was "full of the Holy Ghost" as the Bible claims for Stephen (Acts 7:55).

in Christ,

Bob