MacArthur's Ignorant Misrepresentation of Catholic Teaching

Plenary indulgences provide for an unlimited payment - the Catholic church says that if even one plenary indulgence is granted and actually approved of by Christ - then no matter how much more "time served" the person in purgatory might owe - they are immediately sent on their way to heaven.

But what is more interesting is that the mechanism by which indulgences are supposed to even exist in the first place - has to do with "excess sufferings" of "others" that is applied to your "account".

Which get's us back to the subject of the Atonement of Christ, Purgatory and Indulgences.

Your argument above that Tetzel was not actually selling indulgences is the first I have heard of that change.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Hello lori4dogs,

There is a lunatic fringe in most faiths, if you ask me.

I have known Catholics, and while I disagree with their doctrine (true catholic doctrine), I believe there are people within that group, justlike any other, that don't know enough about their particular denomination to be either saved or damned.

I am happy to see you denounce this video as mis-representative of your beliefs, at least, I am assuming that.

Do you disagree with trans-substantiation?

I have visited methodist churches that believe it, but again, that church does not represent all protestant churches.

Have you studied Catholic Doctrine in earnest?

Just a few questions, I don't get the chance to converse with Catholics very often, and you, having converted to catholicism, could answer some interesting questions.

Not being antagonistic, just curious.

God bless.

 

What does it matter? If purgatory does exist then Jesus died in vain because it would mean that His death, burial, and resurrection was not enough to completely pay for the penalty of our sins. That thought might be OK with the Pope and the RCC, but if denies the bible and what it says... it is a different gospel that Paul warned us against.

 

Heb 9 - does state the judgment happens after you die - but does not say how long after. In Rev 14:6-7 we see the time of judgment taking place in heaven while saints and sinners are both still living on earth.

In Daniel 7 we see the judgment takes place in heaven -- while the saints are still being persecuted on earth - and some time after the rise of the pagan Roman empire. (The 4th Beast of Daniel 7). As soon as "judgment is passed in favor of the sainst" - according to that Chapter - you get the 2nd coming.

They are separated because as Matt 24 stated "immediately after the great tribulation of those days.. He will gather His elect". The rapture of the church separates the righteous from the wicked.

As Christ says in Rev 22:12 "Behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me".

In Luke 12:40-49 the context for the Luke 12:59 statement shows that Christ is talking about salvation vs damnation.

34 ""For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
35 "" Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.
36 ""Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.
37 ""Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
38 "" Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.

39 "" But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
40 "" You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.''
41 Peter said, ""Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?''
42 And the Lord said, "" Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43 ""Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
44 ""Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

45 ""But if that slave says in his heart, "My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk;
46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 ""And that slave who knewhis master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,
48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
49 ""I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!

50 ""But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
51 "" Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;
52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.
53 ""They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.''

 

You don't need to harp on that. All you need to do is read the context in which it was said and realize that he made a mistake. Bob Ryan caught it. If you don't believe it ask him. In fact I would challenge you to do so. Better yet, I think you should stay away from stating a false allegation lest you bring slander on a person, all from a mis-spoken statement. People aren't perfect. Have you ever said something that you didn't mean?

You are one person that treats MacArthur with such great esteem, that every thing that he says, is ex cathedra, perfect, right from God Himself, with no error. I really am amazed at your such high regard for this man. It is almost as if you worship the man. He can never make a mistake. Right?

 

I visited his own site in which he has written many articles on Catholicism. I would advise you to do the same instead of receiving information second hand. In a court of law it would not be accepted. It is termed "hearsay." Go to the source itself.

 

So you don't believe (or are afraid) to go to his actual web page, where he has every topic alphabetized, and thus very easy to find. There you can look it for yourself. What is holding you back? Why believe in hearsay? Directions to other links or not, I don't need to go to a RCC website to find out information about John MacArthur when I can go to his own web page. You are not making sense.

 

Hello lori4dogs,

Isn't accuracy important when attacking anything we see as false?

Have you studied true Catholic Doctrine?

Have you studied the teachings of MacArthur on Catholic Doctrine?

There is a difference between the presence of Christ when we partake of communion and the wafer and wine being transformed into His literal body and blood.

As I said, not all Catholics believe this, but the question is, the source of their doctrine.

Do you see the Apocrypha as inspired scripture?

Just curious.

God bless.

 

I didn't get your link Lori. I just got MacArthur's web page (one of them) with some interesting sermons.

The truth about Semiramis and Tammuz. If he believes in the connection, he has good reason and he is not the only one. One of the most thorough writers on the subject is Alexander Hislop's "Two Babylons." But there are still others who have written similar material all coming to the same conclusion. Certainly the RCC will deny any such thing. But these men can't all be wrong, and it is not one man simply copying another either. If I were in your place, it would cause me to do some serious thinking and research; not just a "I am right and all the world is wrong" attitude.