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Major Doctrines affected by Modern English Translations

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. natters

    natters New Member

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    Lacy said "I believe the KJV is God's inspired Word because of it's abundant fruit."

    First, fruit does not mean that which produced it is perfect, and second, people produce fruit, ink on paper doesn't.
     
  2. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    OK I'm sorry, but you started it! :D

    Mr (Mister)Lacy (As in Sir Lacy)Evans

    That's me! Am I clear? Just so you know where I stand. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] (I'm killing me.}
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I did it out of ignorance, for which I apologize. You did it deliberately, which is unacceptible.
     
  4. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    I did it as a joke. You're a bit sensitive.

    I've been on this board for a long time. (721 posts) I have referred to myself as "pastor". Many have used pronouns like "he" and "his" to refer to me. I have mentioned my wife. You have been here even longer.

    I have had several run-ins with you and frankly I am concerned that you would debate a lady (or who you thought was a lady) in the tone you have taken with me in the past.

    Your ignorance is quite telling. Your attention to detail even more so.

    I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean to.

    Lacy
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Okay, okay, 'nuff said. Apology accepted.

    Don't forget, I don't read every post by everyone, only those that spark my interest. Otherwise, I'd be on this thing all day. Sometime I feel like I'm that way now. But yes, though I've never mentioned your wife, I've been here longer.

    I don't change my tone in public discussion depending on the person's gender. Actually, that can be somewhat patronizing. So long as that person's gender doesn't have anything to do with the topic, the tone likely would not be different.

    Like I said, I only go by what I read, not by everything that everyone posts. I think that most posters do this. Believe me, 700 posts can be a few ot a lot, depending on whom you ask.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    We are not interested in your SYI. Give us some real facts.

    That may be your position. But it's like saying the world is flat. It may appear that way, but from a proper perspective it is totally wrong. You obviously have never studied Greek otherwise you would not make such an erroneous statement. Most people who like to think they have studied Greek on their own actually have is no more than part of a first semester Greek course. Maybe about four weeks at best. Certainly if you looked up thew word for "reserved" in 1 Peter 1:4 you would not say that at all. The English uses a past tense verb while the Greek uses a perfect participle. Quite a huge difference with a much different impact!
     
  7. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    That kind of belief produces none of the righteous fruit God desires. The demons believe and shudder. Pagans and anti-Christians read the KJV in literature classes all the time at universities and colleges. So I am curious what kind of fruit you mean then.

    I forgot to tell you that yhou probably have some literature from a chruch that has a website in CA that is an us four and no more church. Yet they are adamantly KJVO. Their fruit is that they are not winning people to Christ. Never once have they ever knocked on my door. I lived near them for 14 years. I heard them mocked by pagans for their funny-mentalism. Wow, what a great witness for Jesus with all their pagan bashing.
     
  8. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    Would you like a list of men who have studied Greek who share my position? It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a Greek scholar) to know that a ressurrected body is better than a pile of old dry scattered bones.

    Lacy
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    First, a we're not just talking about a "greek version", we're talking about Greek source texts. Source texts have authority over a translation of them.

    Second, a good English version can never be "just as good" as their Greek source texts. There is no such thing as a "perfect translation". There are very good translations (the KJV, NIV, and ASV 1901 are a few examples). There are many words and phrases in Greek (and other languages) that don't translate with the same context. For example, "agape" and "phileo" don't translate exactly to the word "love", yet most english translations translate the dialogue between Peter and Jesus using "love". Lacking the full meaning of "agape" and "phileo", we lose the full scope of what is taking place here if we stick to only the English.

    Third, languages evolve, and change over time. It is necessary, and will always be necessary, to revise translations or develop new translations as time marches on. Scriptural translations are no different. A good example is the Diary of Anne Frank. If you compare a translation of the diary done in the 50's, you'll notice that it will very somewhat from a translation done in 2002, and it will not be difficult to identify the linguistic changes that have taken place. As with scripture, there are certain phrases that were specific to 1600's verbage that are no longer in use today. Good examples are the phrase "God save the King" (today, we'd say "long live the King") and words like "brass" (today we say "bronze").
     
  10. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    1611-1850 Revivals. Awakenings, Holiness, Revived truths, Eschatology, Fundamentalism, Millions of martyrs. (Absolutely unprecedented in human history, with the possible exception of the 1st century church, who had a perfect Bible in Greek.)


    Millions (and millions) of pagans and Anti-christians got salvation, and then got holiness.

    1850-present? The closest thing to a revival in the English speaking world is the Charismatic movement. Nuff said.
     
  11. natters

    natters New Member

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  12. natters

    natters New Member

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    There has been more missionary work in the last century than the previous 19 centuries combined. Why is that not on Lacy's list?
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Many systematic theologies describe "begotten" as an eternal relationship between the Father and the Son, that is He is begotten of the Father from eternity not in the limits of time.

    "Begotten" being a relationship does not affect His co-equality with the Father and the Spirit.

    In that definition I personally don't have a problem with the NASB rendering, though I disagree with theos but prefer huios.

    You can see that only one little drop of carelessly spilt wine would have rendered the Greek word from huios to theos (yes, it could have been the other way but I don't think so) or turn the word into a guessing game if only the last two letters were all that were visible to the scribe.

    HankD
     
  14. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Lacy Evans, I appreciate your standing for the God-approved KJV. Keep up the good work!

    Don't expect any of them to come to a knowledge of the truth about God's English Bible, but keep on telling them the truth. Maybe somewhere down the line God will reveal to them which Bible is the best, the good ole KJV.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    What is the criteria for "God-approved" Terry?

    HankD
     
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You are sadly wrong, Lacy. Sadly. But there are a small number of folks who believe that way.

    You "perfect" English misplaced faith in the 1611 Anglican Version is incredible to a historic fundamental baptist. Can you not see the irony of folks who are "so-called baptists" lauding the Anglican translation?

    What's next? The "perfect" Douay? [​IMG]

    [BTW, to call Philip a "miss" and refer to him in such a belittling manner will earn suspension. Such vile conduct is not condoned. Are you LOOKING to be a martyr?]
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Would you like a list of men who have studied Greek who share my position? It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a Greek scholar) to know that a ressurrected body is better than a pile of old dry scattered bones.

    Lacy
    </font>[/QUOTE]Is his name Paul the apostle or Jesus?

    I might add, do you support the beliefs of the Anglican Church too. You do know they were the translators don't you?
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I wonder when he called Abraham a friend of God if he approved the KJV also at that time?
     
  19. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    It was a joke,I apologized, and he publically accepted my apology, Bro Bob. I'd do the same to you if you called me a girl. But you do what you gotta do.

    lacy
     
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Lacy, I missed all of page 2 (your comments were on the end of page 1 and I read the thread that far and snipped/wrote my stern warning). Had I continued on (as I have now) I would have been less harsh toward you.
     
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