Majority of US Baptist Denominations UNITING WITH ROME?

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by Jillian, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was so outraged upon seeing this, I decided to come here and post.



    http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=26130




    Quote: Pope calls Catholics and Baptists to Common Witness
    12/7/2007

    Catholic News Agency (www.catholicnewsagency.com)
    "Obedience to the Lord's will should constantly spur us, then, to strive for that unity so movingly expressed in His priestly prayer: 'that they may all be one. so that the world may believe.' For the lack of unity between Christians 'openly contradicts the will of Christ" Pope Benedict XVI

    Advertisement
    VATICAN CITY (CNA) - Baptists leaders from around the world met with Pope Benedict XVI this morning at the Vatican as the second round of Baptist-Catholic talks continued. Saying that the lack of unity among Christians contradicts Christ’s will, Benedict XVI told the Baptist delegation that the world needs “our common witness to Christ and to the hope brought by the Gospel.”

    This meeting in Rome is the second round of ongoing discussions that Members of the Baptist World Alliance are holding with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. The theme for this meeting is: "The Word of God in the Life of the Church: *****ure, Tradition and Koinonia."

    That theme, the Pope told the delegates, "offers a promising context for the examination of such historically disputed issues as the relationship between Scripture and Tradition, the understanding of Baptism and the Sacraments, the place of Mary in the communion of the Church, and the nature of ... primacy in the Church's ministerial structure.”

    In an approach that seems to be characteristic of all Benedict XVI’s efforts to promote dialogue, he said, "f our hope for reconciliation and greater fellowship between Baptists and Catholics is to be realized," he added, "issues such as these need to be faced together, in a spirit of openness, mutual respect and fidelity to the liberating truth and saving power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ."

    "Today, as ever, the world needs our common witness to Christ and to the hope brought by the Gospel," Pope Benedict concluded. "Obedience to the Lord's will should constantly spur us, then, to strive for that unity so movingly expressed in His priestly prayer: 'that they may all be one. so that the world may believe.' For the lack of unity between Christians 'openly contradicts the will of Christ, provides a stumbling block to the world, and harms the most holy cause of proclaiming the good news to every creature'

    ************************

    This one part of the Pope's speech here too:

    Quote:As believers in Christ, we acknowledge him as the one mediator between God and humanity
    This is a lie here. Why are Baptists being so easily fooled?


    As many times as the popes have referred to Mary as MEDIATRIX???

    By the way I'm ex-Catholic and for years was in a great congregation at an indpt Baptist church where the truth was taught, since being in a new area, I have realized that if a church is called Baptist this is no guarantee they are teaching anything near God's Word!




    where is the Biblical discernment here folks?

    and:

    Quote: Baptist-Catholic talks continue

    The second round in the second series of conversations between the Baptist World Alliance (BWA) and the Vatican takes place December 2 to 8 in Rome, Italy. The first round in this series was held at Beeson Divinity School, Samford University, in the city of Birmingham in the United States, from December 10-15, 2006.

    The meetings are jointly planned by the Study and Research (S&R) Division of the BWA, headed by Fausto Vasconcelos, and the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

    Paul Fiddes of England, co-chair of the Commission on Doctrine and Interchurch Cooperation of the BWA S&R Division, chairs the conversations along with Arthur Serratelli, Roman Catholic Bishop of Patterson, New Jersey, USA. Joining Vasconcelos, Fiddes and Serratelli in Rome is BWA General Secretary Neville Callam, as well as other noted Baptist and Catholic leaders, scholars, and academics.

    The Baptist team consists of permanent members, and persons specially invited as “esteemed guests.” Permanent members include Fred Deegbe from Ghana, Lilian Lim from Singapore, Tadeusz Zielinski from Poland, Tomas Mackey of Argentina, and Timothy George, Steven Harmon and Nora Lozano of the United States.

    Guests for this round of conversations include Massimo Aprile of Italy, and Curtis Freeman and Denton Lotz from the USA. Tony Peck, BWA Regional Secretary for Europe, will also participate.

    The theme of the second round of meetings is “Baptism and Lord’s Supper/Eucharist as Visible Word of God in the Koinonia of the Church.”

    The first series of talks between the BWA and the Vatican took place between 1984 and 1988. The current series, which began in December 2006, continues until 2010.

    The BWA General Council, meeting in Mexico City in July 2006, approved the present series of theological conversations with the Vatican.

    The BWA has previously held theological conversations with the Anglican, Lutheran, Mennonite, Reformed, and Orthodox churches.

    (November 30, 2007)


    Ok I thought maybe this group BAPTIST WORLD ALLIANCE--- ok maybe they are some liberal offshoot, instead I found out they are representing NEARLY ALL BAPTIST DENOMINATIONALS! with the exception of the SBC and fundamentalist indpt baptists.


    Here's their membership list of Baptists groups in the US that they represent.
    What is that over 12 million Baptists in America?

    Where they all sleeping through the Bible classes on Revelation or something?

    http://www.bwanet.org/default.aspx?pid=5

    Things are far worse then I thought.

    I hope here there are a FEW PEOPLE ON MY SIDE WITH BIBLICAL DISCERNMENT ABOUT THIS ISSUE!
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then we need a new Martin Luther.
     
  3. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin Luther exposed the papacy as antichrist.

    He would be astounded to see what was happening today, the majority of the Lutherans with one major hold out {cant remember if Missouri or Wisconsin syndod are the hold outs?} have done the unity talks as well.
     
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    How can Baptists and Rome unite when Rome is preaching that "other gospel"? Tell me!
     
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    You're making the assumption that the Baptists are suddenly embracing Roman Catholic doctrine. That's a long way from the truth. One of the Baptists in this delegation is a good friend of mine. Believe me, he understands Catholic doctrine very well... both popular variations of Catholic doctrine and official doctrine.

    This is an opportunity for Baptists and Catholics to better understand each other and perhaps influence each other for good. Whether we like it our not, Christ has called us to be unified (at least in spirit) for the sake of our common witness. I understand that many people believe that someone who is under the influence of the Roman Catholic organization cannot be a true believer in Christ, but I don't believe that at all... since I have family members who grew up under Roman Catholicism (because it was their heritage and the only other options were atheism, Islam, or Eastern Orthodox). Christ is not bound by the institutions of humankind.

    Baptist congregations and denominations are autonomous, so the BWA doesn't "represent" any of us. The BWA exists to aid Baptist denominations around the world in their common interests, ministries, and fellowship. And they don't have any authority or interest in "uniting with Rome" as you claim.

    I think you will find that they don't hold to the view of Revelation that exclusively identifies the "whore of Babylon" as being the Roman Catholic church.

    I'm certainly "on your side" but I disagree with you regarding this issue. True biblical discernment is looking past the human labels and power structures and seeing truth from error.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    Well, to turn the question around, how can the Roman Catholic church "unite" with Baptists when many of them are teaching a gospel where those who don't have any interest in following Christ are somehow "saved" just because they give mental assent to "four spiritual laws?"

    There's bad doctrine all over the place and we should be careful not to condemn others for bad doctrine when we have a beam in our own eye.
     
  7. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    False doctrine is false doctrine, no matter where it comes from?
     
  8. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    Yep. But there's enough good doctrine in the Roman Catholic church (in most places at least) for believers to find their way to God as the Holy Spirit draws them.
     
  9. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's no doubt in my mind that there are saved people among the Catholics, but this is not owing to their theology---it is precisely what you identified--"the Holy Spirit draws them."
     
  10. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    this place cracks me up...

    so, if we are so outraged, what are you going to do to capture the Kingdom of God for those around you?

    Honestly I have several friends who are devout Catholics, including several Roman Catholic priests who are good friends. I love them in Christ and we enjoy a sweet fellowship together. I have done, and will continue to do work with them to advance the Kingdom of God. Keep in mind, they aren't teaching Sunday School but we are partnering together to do some great things in our communities.

    While we disagree on some issues, we have agreed to celebrate our agreement than emphasize our disagreement. I still don't know why this is a bad thing? Baptist aren't the only Christian denomination going to Heaven...or able to read the Scriptures. :)
     
  11. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look there are plenty who are YOKED to Rome who may concede they are in error about some things.

    Your friend may understand Catholic doctrine, but he does not understand this verse:
    [​IMG]2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

    Why is your friend yoking to Rome? Is he an amillenialist that does not believe in scriptural warnings about the "one mind of the beast" of the last days?

    And what am I to make of Baptists who yoke with Catholics when I FIRSTHAND know from the inside the falsehoods of that system as a cradle Catholic knowing I was held from salvation in Jesus Christ due to its false gospel? Thank God some strong Christians witnessed to me {Not the types to go unite with Rome} and told me the truth.


    Does your friend not know history? That this is not about the dialogue, but Rome talks and you listen. In fact even one of the pow-wows with the Anglicans was called "The GIFT of AUTHORITY" {you understand what I mean don't you? This has to do with papal authority.

    Many are deceived and actually joining the one world religion warned of in last days. Doesnt your friend ask yourself why Rome is even advancing false religions via the interfaith movement? I have evidence that the Catholic church even has yoked with Unitarian Universalists in their one world religion endeavors.
    Do you believe all religions are to join together for peace as the Pope does?
    http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/documents/ns_lit_doc_20020124_assisi-giornata_en.html
    Here I want to show you something:

    This is right off the Vatican website, where JPII held a giant interfaith fest where he sponsered the prayers of Vooduns, Muslims, Shintos, HIndus and Buddhists to all "pray for peace":

    Now read this quote:
    and now refer yourself to the BIble where it warns of the antichrist

    Daniel 8:25

    And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    Notice for yourself as well, the universalistic view of all religions, where they are seen as sources for good, rather then the truth which is they were inspired by Satan.




    Sure someone can be saved in Jesus Christ and be without a institution or church, but make sure youre not falling for the whole Emergent church or Catholic line fo the "anonymous Christian". Obviously your poor relatives came from a place where the true gospel must have been held back. How are you or your pal helping this by going to unite with the Pope? You both do realize the Pope speaks OUT AGAINST Baptist and other churches in Latin AMerica dont you? Referring to them as SECTS? JPII even referred to them as rapacious wolves at one point.

    Another point I have is why is your friend going to unite with the man who cares more about his power, who claims to be infallible who declared that Christian churches {and BAPTIST ones definitely FIT THIS} aren't really churches? Glutton for punishment? or just spiritually blind?

    Well it doesnt represent me.

    Some do teach local autonomous churches, but I wonder if Baptists know what their leadership or denominations are up to.

    To be frank, with that kind of aid, theyd be better off without them. As I said where is the biblical discerment here?


    Well they have parted ways from all the Reformers as well betraying the Reformation as well who named the Pope rightly so as antichrist. {even Luther named him as so}

    I wonder how many of these churches have gone amillenial, so they could lead their people into delusion about the end times, and lead to a downfall of all spiritual discernment such as this?

    They have also betrayed all the people who died at the hands of Rome for centuries at their inquistions and the people NOW suffering persecution under rome {there are evangelicals in Mexico losing homes and sometimes even their lives}

    You are not on my side if you support unity with Rome or even dialogue with them.

    Look this so called "power structure" and really that is all they are interested in is power, murdered hundreds of thousands of Anabaptists and if you havent heard that term, Anabaptist means BAPTIST.

    Your friend and you needs to go read the Bible. Pay attention to Revelation 17,18

    Youre bringing the PLAGUES on yourselves.
     
    #11 Jillian, Dec 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2007
  12. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is that?

    They worship even a false christ the wafer.

    The Mass is an offront to God forsaking the teachings of Hebrew 10.

    Every Christian that is an EX-Catholic such as myself, came to salvation IN SPITE of the Catholic church.

    I learned the gospel from true Christians {not ecumenists} and reading God's Word.
     
  13. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes they can be saved, but the Holy Spirit draws them out.

    I left only a few weeks after being born again.
     
  14. Jillian

    Jillian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    0
    What are you doing to witness to those men and lead them out of their false priesthood?

    Because right now it sounds like you are happy with the error they are in including the fact they believe they can get up on that catholic altar and SUPPOSELY call down "jesus" {body soul and divinity} into the catholic wafer for transubstantiation, and to lead more poor Catholic people into thinking they are born again having received this wafer instead of receiving Jesus Christ in faith!

    I do not believe Baptists are the only Christians going to heaven but does this mean you believe everyone who calls themselves a Christian is one? Like Mormons, JWs and New Agers who believe in Jesus Christ as an avatar/

    I thank God daily I encountered some true bible believers rather then sold out ecumenists who would have left me to die in my sins in the RCC!
     
    #14 Jillian, Dec 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2007
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    My husband is a born again ex-catholic. Praise Jesus! I believe the RCC is a false religion and we should not be snuggling up to her!


    2Cr 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
     
  16. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I read that, I got a mental picture of a priest saying, "Here Boy, Here.. .Good Savior" :laugh: :laugh:
     
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    The Holy Spirit has to draw everyone (John 6:44), whether a person is Baptist, Catholic, or pagan.
     
  18. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    I applaud Pope Benedict for his leadership in trying to build bridges in the vast rifts in the Christian body in obedience to

    1) Jesus' prayer in John 17 for our unity so that the world will believe the Father sent him.

    "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one;
    even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us,
    so that the world may believe that You sent Me."
    John 17: 20-21 NASB


    2) Paul's imploring in Ephesians 4

    Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called,
    with all humility and gentleness,
    with patience,
    showing tolerance for one another in love,
    being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    There is one body
    and one Spirit, just as also you were called in
    one hope of your calling;
    one Lord,
    one faith,
    one baptism,
    one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
    Ephesians 4:1-5 NASB
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus' plan for unity was not through someone who encourages worship of idols... as Benedict does.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Agreed. I believe Catholic/Protestant dialogue over the last generation has been very valuable at moving both groups in valuable directions towards orthodoxy and orthopraxy.
     

Share This Page

Loading...