Male submission to women

Gina, I have two boys (3 and 1). I will raise them to honor and protect women. God did not make us men stronger so that we may beat down, but protect and care for women. Just because some men abuse their roles, doesn't mean we must redefine reality to coddle to the lberals (what BB in particular is advocating).

 

Timtoolman might be a bit offended by that comment, as he started most of them! ROFL

It does annoy me that so many Baptist men, and often more noticeably in IFB ones, treat their wives like dirt and justify it with verses that talk about submission and the husband being the boss. That bothers me as a Christian mother to 3 daughters with membership in a Baptist church. But just as I don't want them to marry men who MUST have their authority unquestioned at all times, I don't want to raise daughters who are disobedient to God's word.
So what you need to do is back up, pm a moderator of this forum, and request that your unjustified reasoning of why I posted this topic be reworded or removed from your post.

I want to know the truth of what the Bible says, and be able to teach it to my daughters. You gave your opinion on the topic, and for that I thank you, but I have no obligation to accept it as anything but opinion at this point in time.
Gina </font>[/QUOTE]Why should I change it? This is a debate board. Because you don't agree with what I stated I should change it? That's not much of a debate is it?

You don't have to accept my opinion, but you do have to take God at His word. For me as a husband, Love means love. Give honor means give honor. For my wife, submit means submit, obey means obey, respect means respect. It's very simple.

 

Well said!

 

I talk with my wife because I value her. It is MY choice to make decisions. I do not HAVE to consult my wife. Further, the Bible never says I have to. That is a decision I make. I am not less loving if I don't consult her. Don't insert your own idea of love into the actual teaching.

Christ loved the church. He didn't ask what she wanted or what she thought was best. Again, the very fact that I choose to talk with my wife proves that I have the authority to also NOT talk to my wife.

I am the only one held responsible on such decisions. Even the cowards who burden their wives with more responsiblity will be held responsible.

Note to all egalitarians: the local chiropractic center usually has an extra skeleton around for you to get a spine. </font>[/QUOTE]You write just like you are the man you describe others to be. So often the man who accuses others of certain things and beats the drum on is gulity of that very same thing.

Romans 2:1, "Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."

I've seen many men just like you who beat their wives and abuse them. They talk just like you and speak just like the way you write. By the way you write it is clear that you have been married only a short time. By the way you write I don't have to wonder about how you speak to your wife and children by the way you write in a public debate forum. Hopefully by the time you get a little older and make a few mistakes you will have changed some of your hard edge. I have dealt with quite a number of men just like you who have been deacons and leaders in churches and other men in the congregation. My brother in law has hauled some to jail.

Again you never answered the question I asked about Eph. 5:21. If you really knew the answer you wouldn't need to write a discourse. A few words would do. I didn't ask for a fog but a clear and concise answer.

 

Isn't it amazing how what God commands works so well if we obey His commands. The trouble comes when we don't.

In my lifetime I have only been in one home where the entire family put each other first before themselves. It was absolutely amazing what I saw. I learned about what I wanted when I got married. That same young man who I came to visit when I was in college was later in my wedding and made an incredible impact upon my family who were not Christians at the time. My dad who is still very antagonistic toward Christianity was blown over and had little to say when he met my friend. That man truly honored others above himself. Isn't that the impact Christ is to have in our homes and in our lives.

 

By the language you have used and attitude you demonstrate in a public forum I don't believe one word of what you have written.

 

gb, you asked me what it was I was describing. Sorry if the answer wasn't to short for you. Please deal with the issues instead of whining about your short attention span.

As far as whether or not you believe me, I will probably be up all night about it.

 

The statement I made and the question I asked in regards to Eph. 5:21 was, "Again if you could just comprehend the idea that verse 21 is a link in Greek to link the former pericope with the following pericope tying them together. So that being the case, how would you interpret verse 21?"

 

Just fyi, I am not an egalitarian but a complementarian.

It seems you are still trying to equate submit and obey. If a husband demands obedience, I think he is abusing his leadership role. Why doesn't God use the same word for wives as he does for children and slaves?

 

Marcia, I didn't mean to imply you were an egalitarian.

My point is that the decision is given to the man to make. He doesn't have to command his wife to do anything. He isn't training his wife.

The role is different than with the children and servants/slaves. That is the reason for the different word.

Make no mistake, the man is still in charge by order of God, even if the man shrivels back from his role.

 

If one wants to be a genuine leader then he must look at Jesus and how he led. He must also look at what scripture talks about how a servant of God is to lead. No man is a leader just becuase he thinks it is his responsibility to lead. He is a leader because he has followers. It's really that simple.

 

Seems to me almost all of these threads on submission are started by women who want to argue about why the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I must love my wife as Christ loves the church whether she submits or not. The way I love her indicates my true level of love for God. She must submit to me whether I love her or not. Her level of submission is indicative of her relationship with God. That's the point so many people miss. I MUST love her BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. She MUST follow my leadership (submit) BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. My loving her may make it easier for her to obey God, but my lack of loving her does not make it right for her to disobey God. It's about God. </font>[/QUOTE]Well said and that is the bottom line! It is to the Lord. Those women that disagree are living in rebellion to God! I can say it no other way. It is there and very clear. All the hype about abuse and beating is not the issue. It amazes me that when My wife started the thread we wanted (On submissioin) everyone to know we meant everyday things and not extreme. But the women on here argueing are taking the extreme. As you listen at no time are they told to submit. It is a hardness of the heart.

 

No its not Gina, its a smoke screen. Its a way for women to argue to disobey God. When it does not contradict Gods word then women ought to obey...that is Bible. That is God's chain of authority. Abrasive as it may be to women that is fact. It is scriptual and 15 years ago this arguement would not even occur. What has happened is christians have adjusted thier belief or changed if I may to suite culture. Woman's lib. etc. Women are to submit to thier husbands. Why, as to the Lord, so as not to dishonor the word or God. What a weak testimony for a wife not to trust God. Not to take Him at His word. Now we have women wanting men to submit. Why not ask God on here to submit it would be no different. For you see it is God that tells a woman to submit, and gives the reasons why! I refuse to believe that God was just rambling here. He said to submit, but low and behold as women search so hard in vain to a counter that, we find them making God wasting words. AS if there was no need to put that in His word. Wives submit.....but oh by the way I didn't really mean, you see I don't say everything that I really mean, sometimes I'm just kidding. Give me a break.

 

Gina, you're evidently not reading the answers you've been given.