Male submission to women

There are NO verses in the Bible that tell men to be submissive (Gk., hupotasso) to their wives. That has been my point all along. The complement of telling wives to submit to their husbands is telling men to be the head of their wives. The Bible never switches these around by teaching co-headship. Mutual submission between husbands and wives is the same thing as co-headship.

The verses you quoted in your original post do not mean that everyone must submit (i.e., put themselves under the authority) of everybody else. They mean that we should submit to the authorities that God has placed over us - there are lots of authorities that both men and women must obey. God's command to us is to submit to those authorities.

Andy

 

As Diane said, you must not be reading the posts. My posts are absolutely scriptural. Read very slowly now - God says to me "Love your wife, give honor to her." God says to my wife, "Sumbit to your husband, respect your husband, obey your husband." This is Scripture.

Which is worse - falsely judging motives, as you say I have done, or lying as you just did by saying that I said something (#2 above) which I have never said and earlier in your post when you said I have merely given opinion and not Scripture? Perhaps the beam in your eye obscures the vision of the mote in mine.

 

I think that everyone here is in agreement with that. It appears that this thread is less a matter of what constitutes submission, and more what constitutes headship, when the topic of submission is involved.

I will repeat myself from my earlier post:

Godly men need to stop whining about what they think qualifies as submission, and start taking seriously their role of loving and headship. Those men on this board who think that submission means they get to "order" or "command" their wives are abusing the scriptural role of headship, and are making a mockery of that same scriptural role. Likewise, women who expect the husbands to make all the decisions and live with the consequences are abusing the role of submission.

 

I wish we could do a poll where only married women (Christian married to a Christian) could reply, rating the happiness of their marriage and their level of submission. I think we'd see how God's will in our lives works for our good when we submit to His commands. I also think we'd find very few Biblically submissive women who think they have Christian husband's who are overbearing or demanding!

 

Gina, I have stated all of the reasons that have been listed here on how to interpt those verse by God's word. If you have read my posts from the other threads you will see that I have said from the beginning that eph 5:21 was the biginning of how and who to submit in the following verses. And in titus 2:5 wives be subject to their own husbands...again in col 3:18 ....Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Also children to parents and slaves to masters. There are others in the scripture also. YOunger to elder, government. Everything I am typing here is a repeat!
It is rather odd that God would set up an authority and ..as you are try8ing to pt out, nullify it or make it of no account. (a nothing muffin) Just rambling on. That is what you are reducing it too. Humility presreves peace and order in all christian churches and societies, it is pride that will disturb. Yet we put our faith in God, even though we know that the government is agianst God we submit to HIM (God). That is the testmony of us to the world of God. He will abide and uphold us, we simply are to trust. He will right all wrongs but we have to believe that. When pride gets in the way then not only is peace lost but so is faith.
Submission is the duty of the wife, not to an unsaved man, a tyrant, or stern person but "to the Lord". That is your focus, that is the goal of the wife to serve faithfully to the Lord. This is What God says, we are to obey not what we feeel or think is fair or just.
I am the first to admitt I have problems with authority too. I am not singling out women but I cannot igonor the plain teaching of the bible.
And as we read further down in col verse 23 we see a principle that can be applied equally here. ...vs23 whatever you do, do your work heartly as for the Lord, rather then for MEN....vs 24 knowing that from the Lord you will recieve the reward of the inheritance. IT IS the Lord Christ whom you serve.
There is your reason for being obedient! And what happens to those who wrong you? Vs 25 ...For he who does wrong will recieve the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partially......
Do you believe that? Do you believe God will right all wrongs, injustices? You show by your life not your words. Does this not show that God will hold all accountable who He has given authority too! absolutely!
The fact that you have started this thread and have tried to twist this into something other then what God has meant it to be shows what is in your heart. No where as , Dr Bob, Diane, Andy,Freeatlast,blackbird, Pastor Larry, David Daniel, Pastor Gregg and myself have stated does it say men are to submit to women! Serve others yes, but again you try to make a mockery of God's word by saying He did not mean what He said. Its like me saying I am too be the head of the home, the authority......yet I will let my children, wife, pets and others take that authority from me. I will answer for that also. There is not alot of abuse in our church. And the homes that women run, yes there are some I can see where the woman have taken the Headship,most of the time they are the lound, unrulely and haughty spirits in the church. Looking for faults in the Pastor or leadership so that they may flex their authority. They are discontent and constantly stirring the pot!

 

I think that everyone here is in agreement with that. It appears that this thread is less a matter of what constitutes submission, and more what constitutes headship, when the topic of submission is involved.

I will repeat myself from my earlier post:

Godly men need to stop whining about what they think qualifies as submission, and start taking seriously their role of loving and headship. Those men on this board who think that submission means they get to "order" or "command" their wives are abusing the scriptural role of headship, and are making a mockery of that same scriptural role. Likewise, women who expect the husbands to make all the decisions and live with the consequences are abusing the role of submission. </font>[/QUOTE]John that is your opinion, I can only tell you that that is not my heart. It is "This is what the Bible sayth" nothing else! I can see the anger in some women, but my opinion from my experience is that women who follow God and do TRUST him do not have issues with submission. NOw I know a woman counsler who will run around yelling at women that it is abuse to submit to their husbands but most who "love the Lord " do not even consider it to be abusive, cause you see they are doing it as ...unto the Lord. That my friend is Bible.

 

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/cbmw/rbmw/chapter8.html

Here is a good page on the topic.

[ November 08, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Timtoolman ]

 

Timtoolman, thank you for the article. I thought it was really good. Yet he says wives are not to submit when a husband orders her to sin such as in ordering her to get an abortion.

 

You changed the link?

 

Timtoolman, thank you for the article. I thought it was really good. Yet he says wives are not to submit when a husband orders her to sin such as in ordering her to get an abortion. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, I put the wrong one up. Did you like the other one better. I thought this one was a little deeper. Did a search on submit today and found out where a few got their argument .

Tim

 

Well I was reading it can you repost please. I didn't have time to read the second one yet.

 

There is also this article by Wayne Grudem on the Myth of Mutual Submission:

http://www.soulcare.org/Counseling/MythofSubmission.html


Andy

 

Seems to me almost all of these threads on submission are started by women who want to argue about why the Bible doesn't mean what it says. I must love my wife as Christ loves the church whether she submits or not. The way I love her indicates my true level of love for God. She must submit to me whether I love her or not. Her level of submission is indicative of her relationship with God. That's the point so many people miss. I MUST love her BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. She MUST follow my leadership (submit) BECAUSE GOD SAID SO. My loving her may make it easier for her to obey God, but my lack of loving her does not make it right for her to disobey God. It's about God. </font>[/QUOTE]Well said and that is the bottom line! It is to the Lord. Those women that disagree are living in rebellion to God! I can say it no other way. It is there and very clear. All the hype about abuse and beating is not the issue. It amazes me that when My wife started the thread we wanted (On submissioin) everyone to know we meant everyday things and not extreme. But the women on here argueing are taking the extreme. As you listen at no time are they told to submit. It is a hardness of the heart. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree, and a man that REFUSES to obey Gods command is also in rebellion. If he is the head as GOD COMMANDS, and he being the HEAD, refuses to obey God's command what will become of the order of the whole family.

 

I agree, and a man that REFUSES to obey Gods command is also in rebellion. If he is the head as GOD COMMANDS, and he being the HEAD, refuses to obey God's command what will become of the order of the whole family. [/QB][/QUOTE]

And Ditto that

 

Yes, sorry. http://www.pilgrimcovenant.com/weeklyArticle/wklyArt_021110.html

 

Actually, mutual submission between husbands and wives is needed for the two to become one flesh. Love one another as Christ loves, give yourselves to each other as Christ gave himself, and submit to each other as to Christ. Once you do that, then you take on the insividual roles of headship and submission. When you do this, then you understand that scriptural headship has nothing to do with the line of thinking that involves ordering one's wife to do something she doesn't want to do.

 

Actually, mutual submission between husbands and wives is needed for the two to become one flesh. Love one another as Christ loves, give yourselves to each other as Christ gave himself, and submit to each other as to Christ. Once you do that, then you take on the insividual roles of headship and submission. When you do this, then you understand that scriptural headship has nothing to do with the line of thinking that involves ordering one's wife to do something she doesn't want to do. </font>[/QUOTE]Then what does scriptual headship have to do with anything. Really JohnV what is the purpose?