It may be that I'm too fundamental and take God's word too by the book. So if I'm not welcome/qualified/whatever please tell me. I enjoy the challenging conversations, but I don't want to violate the safety of a haven. Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. Jesus the Christ, the head of the church, who has visited the heavens, Made some to be apostles, teachers, etc..(the leaders of the Church) to lead the people for works of service. The job of the Church is to lead the people in their works. Until they become a perfect man (in most translations) ((Word Telioos means mature in today's english, perfect was good in the 1600 meaning of the word, not today) So through works we reach Xian maturity. Not through theology. Through those works, and maturity we will gain knowledge of Christ, and Unity. How much are we to be matured? If Christ's maturity was measured in a glass, we'd be the same size glass. If it was filled with 8 ounces, ours would have the same 8 ounce amount. And in case there was any doubt that Paul met as spiritually mature as Christ was, he says to the fullness of Christ. This verse usually tosses people off with the use of the word Perfect where Mature is above. But hopefully reading it this way, with mature, will avoid that dilemma. So, my interpretation is how it is written, with no changes, and no forcing other thoughts to interfere with it's words. So I've been called a heretic, because my view wasn't the fundamental view. But in my view, I'm more fundamental than the fundamentals, because I don't have to change the words to suit my view. So, does my interpretation aggravate you, or make sense?