Man made at the beginning of creation-How old is the earth?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,292
    Likes Received:
    782
    But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ (Mark 10:6)


    Here we have the words of Christ about the timing of the creation of Adam and Eve.

    How do you believe this affects the view of how old the earth is?
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    I believe it means a Young Earth, Young Universe. Man appeared in history only a few thousand years ago. However, I believe that the Bishop's dating is faulty and the earth is older than 6000 years.
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,968
    Likes Received:
    128
    You are carrying your preconceived philosophy into this passage and interpreting it accordingly.

    The word "beginning" is an indefinite time; if it was a definite, a certain time, "the beginning", it would have been the first moment of the first day.

    In Mark 10:6, 'beginning' speaks of the time when man and woman were first created.

    Genesis 1 calls these first seven days, "the beginning".

    Whether the days were ages long or 24-hour days makes no difference on the meaning of this passage, it was still "the beginning".

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2015
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    12
    It makes all the difference in the world. Yom -means 24 hr period in the context of Genesis given the qualifiers of morning and evening, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. This is meant to make clear the time frame of creation not obfuscate it.

    You also totally destroy the significance of the Sabbath since on the "7th day God rested" which was a creation ordinance commanded to be obeyed by the Hebrews and extends to the New Covenant as well
     
  5. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are many who disagree with you regarding the meaning of "yom" (See Hugh Ross).

    It makes no difference.
     
  6. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    The exchange here in Mark 10 is dealing with Jesus' response to a question of divorce, perhaps a "gotcha" trap set by the Pharisees, much like the demise of John the Baptist. His response simply indicates that it was the intention of God from the beginning of humanity that marriage was to be a permanent relationship.
     
  7. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,515
    Likes Received:
    49
    The word (G746) translated as "beginning" refers to the very start of creation, i.e. Genesis 1:1. But from (or since or after) this very beginning, God made man. How long after, according to Genesis 1:27, on the sixth day or the creation week.

    Now because the Bible lists every generation from Adam to Jesus, the Bible seems to say the very first man, made in the image of God, was created less than 7000 years ago.

    YEC accept that since man was created during the creation week, less than 7000 years ago, every thing else was also created less than 7000 years ago. Any hitch in that view is explained away with "created with apparent age" like the wine a Cana.

    Now the OEC say, not so fast, yom is sometimes used to refer to indefinite and very long periods of time. The YEC fire back with yom is never used as anything but a 24 hour day when numbered.

    And so it goes.... :)
     
  8. Getting it Right

    Getting it Right
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Suddenly it dawned on me ..... like a light bulb suddenly switched on!

    "Before the beginning of space and time, God created."

    Now......... let's all gather around the Hubble telescope.........

    :smilewinkgrin:
     
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    What exactly is your point here?
     
  10. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    12
    Hugh Ross is has no knowledge of Hebrew nor has he been theologically educated. He is only spouting off what he has been taught and is allowing his physics to dictate the rule of scripture and not the other way around
     
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm just guessing here.... but I bet his knowledge is more extensive than yours. To flip the coin, how much knowledge do you have of astronomy, physics and cosmology?
     
  12. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,968
    Likes Received:
    128
    Is the original intent of this passage meant to teach us about whether the earth is old or young?

    If we could hear God's response after reading this post he'd either be chuckling or crying saying, "they missed the point!"

    Rob
     
  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    12
    I doubt that about Hebrew-but maybe? Physics, yes (I think that he does have a PHD in Physics-maybe?) but this is not physics. class, it is about the eternal Word of God.

    BTW, I did have several classes in physics (Physics 151 and 152 and Quantum here) as well.

    **I forgot Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics. I did only have 1 class in astronomy

    You cannot possibly hold to "Sola Scriptura" and be an Old Earth Creationist-it is impossible

    I would encourage you to read

    "The Collapse of Evolution" by Scott Huse for starters. It is a very good treatment of Evolution and he totally obliterates what you propose
     
    #13 Marooncat79, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2015
  14. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,888
    Likes Received:
    37
    Why would to be, "old earth," necessarily make one an evolutionist?

    I am, "old earth," however I do not believe man evolved from anything created but was created in the image of God.

    I believe the man created in the image of God was the means by which the God would send his Son to eradicate the works of the devil, Satan, who pre- existed and sinned prior to, the created man.

    What is the result of sin? --- Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15 For the wages of sin is death; Rom 6:23

    The first man, Adam:
    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12 For since by man came death,/For as in Adam all die, from 1 Cor. 15:21,22

    The sin of Adam brought death to all men.

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

    Did the sin of the devil bring death to anything?
    Was the sin of the devil before the sin of Adam?
    Why was there darkness upon the face of the deep, on the earth?
    Is darkness opposite of light, is God light and is the devil darkness?
    Why is the darkness upon the face of the deep, on the earth after the creation, listed before the light?

    What was dead?
     
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    And what about your preconceived philosophy?:thumbs:
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Some interesting reading here:

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    The Collapse of Evolution is a good read, also Man's Origin, Man's Destiny by A. E. Wilder Smith.
     
  18. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0

    I lean heavily toward evolutionary creationism, I don't see any dissonance relative to the "imago dei".
     
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for the suggested read. I have read much from multiple sides of the issue....and yes I was once just as YEC as you. I guess I would need to know what you see as the definition of "sola scripture"..

    Are you an engineer?
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    An interesting observation from an evolutionist:
    Then there is this:
    And this:

     

Share This Page

Loading...