Man or God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    Matthew 24:13
    But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. ​

    Acts 15:11
    But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.​


    So which is it, man in persistent endurance or the unmerited favor of God?
     
  2. Amy.G

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    These two verses can't be compared. In Matthew, Jesus is talking to Jews about the tribulation period. He that endures to the end will go into the millennial kingdom.

    No one has ever earned salvation. Salvation has always been by grace.
     
  3. agedman

    agedman
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    If the words in Matthew meant - still alive to enter the millennial kingdom - then wouldn't the words have reflected that meaning and not used the word "saved."

    Besides in Mark the statement is clearly speaking to the believer.
     
  4. 12strings

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    What if you're an amillenialist!!!:smilewinkgrin:


    I would say they are complimentary:

    He who endures shall be saved in the end. Who who has been born again WILL endure. WHY? Because God is Guarding him THROUGH FAITH. God is upholding his faith.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

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    Both, of course. We must persevere in order to be saved, and we shall do so, if truly saved, by the unmerited favour of God.

    Steve
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    :thumbs::applause::thumbs:
    [QUOTE 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ][/QUOTE]


    The wording of the 1689 confession is well thought out:
    Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
    1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
    2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
    ( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )

    3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
    ( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    Let's assume that enduring to the end is required for salvation.

    The apostle John taught that enduring (or overcoming) is guaranteed.
    I John 5:4-5
    Believers overcome. Believers endure. Our faith not only saves, it also guarantees enduring. They are all gifts of God. Faith is a gift. Repentance is a gift. Overcoming is a gift.
     
  8. agedman

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    However, the Revelation church instructions (Rev. 2-3) paint a different picture.

    The Scripture repeatedly states that "to him that overcomes..."

    Now I know the word for endure means to tarry behind in perseverance to a victory, and I know that the word for overcomes means to conquer and prevail, but the word meanings are similar in that one cannot prevail without perseverance.

    So, it would appear at this point that such relies upon man effort not an automatic right of a believer, and the seeming conflict of the OP remains.

    It is not a matter of:
    "Believers overcome. Believers endure. Our faith not only saves, it also guarantees enduring. They are all gifts of God. Faith is a gift. Repentance is a gift. Overcoming is a gift."​
     
  9. MB

    MB
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    Please explain Roman 4: 5 in relation to the fruit you claim must be had to be a christian.
    MB
     
  10. agedman

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    I'm not making such a claim.

    In the OP I am asking for a solution to what might be a problem between suggesting man endures and is saved as Jesus said, or God through Christ saves as in the book of Acts.

    However for your question:
    Romans 4:4-5 "Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."​

    I don't see that as an issue to the OP, but rather demonstrating that working off a debt may not be the as good as not holding down a job. :flower:

    James said show me faith and show me works. Must have been from Missouri.
     

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