Man Who Filmed Eric Garner Being Choked Says Grand Jury Was Rigged

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by InTheLight, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    Ramsey Orta — who recorded the July 17 incident in which Officer Daniel Pantaleo put Eric Garner in a chokehold shortly before he died on his cellphone — told the Daily News the grand jury ‘wasn’t fair from the start,’ and claims his testimony only lasted 10 minutes. ‘I think they already had their minds made up,’ he said.

    Orta said he arrived at the Richmond County courthouse on Sept. 1 prepared to be grilled for hours about what happened on July 17, when cops confronted Garner on a Tompkinsville street for selling unlicensed cigarettes.

    Ten minutes later, Orta said he was done.

    Only a few jurors asked any questions.

    “Maybe three, that’s all,” he said. “The rest of them, they weren't even worried about nothing.”

    Those that did pose questions were also more focused on Garner than Pantaleo, he said.

    “One grand juror asked me, ‘If you knew he was selling cigarettes why didn't you tell him the cops was there?’” he said.

    Another grand juror asked Orta if he had ever been arrested.

    “I said, ‘Miss, what does my criminal history have to do with Eric?’” he said. “I said we shouldn't be sitting here talking about me, we should be talking about Eric now. And we shouldn't even be talking about Eric, we should be talking about the cop.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...rigged-man-filmed-chokehold-article-1.2033257
     
  2. PreachTony

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    From what I understand, that is actually more common of grand jury investigation and testimony than what occurred in Ferguson. It was a surprise to most people that the Ferguson prosecutor actually presented all evidence, as opposed to only evidence favorable of his potential to prosecute the case in court.

    Not commenting on the outcome...just the shorter testimony times...
     
  3. Zaac

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    I know that's a limited view of what took place in the grand jury, but my goodness. from his comments, it almost sounds as though some of them didn't even realize that they were there to decide whether or not to bring charges against the police officer. So either they didn't get that, or they did but had no intent of finding cause for an indictment.

    I keep coming back to the fact that it just doesn't take much info from a prosecutor to a grand jury to get an indictment. The level of proof is extremely low.
     
  4. Zaac

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    Which is again why I believe the Ferguson prosecutor was not trying to prosecute. When he said it would take weeks, that should have been everybody's tip that he wasn't trying to prosecute.

    You present enough information to warrant the grand jury saying "okay a jury of his peers needs to further explore a presentation of all of the evidence" because we've seen enough to tell us that a day in court is due.

    This is twice in two weeks that due process has been bypassed in two high profile cases.

    When one party is dead, apparently due process of upholding the law can be bypassed.
     
  5. Don

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    Disagree, Zaac. Missouri was handled by a mix of ethnicities that decided there was no reason to proceed.

    In NY, a policeman used an unauthorized restraining procedure that resulted in the suspect's death. NY, in my personal opinion, more likely warranted protests and outrage than Ferguson did.
     
  6. Salty

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    Incorrect!!! The Grand juries found in both cases there was insufficient evidence for murder.

    Due process at work.

    Here is a unique concept! DO WHAT THE COP SAY!
     
  7. Use of Time

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    It's becoming painfully obvious why there is no accountability to be found here with the police.
     
  8. just-want-peace

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    IMNSHO, this attitude stems from kids who ignored their parents when told to do "whatever" and kept getting away with it.

    I have a g-son that his parents have to tell at least 5 times to do --- before he finally ambles grumpingly to do it. When the kids are spending some time with us (sans parents) I tell him up front that I'm not going to tell him something but once. If no action taken pronto, some discipline follows. It is EXTREMELY rare that the disrespect for my/wife's authority continues for more than the first few hours they are with us.

    All our Grans love to come and spend time with us, and I firmly believe that one of the reasons is that there are firm rules, and they know their boundaries.

    I can just imagine these characters had little to no discipline growing up.
     
  9. Salty

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    It's becoming painfully obvious why there is no responsibility to be found here with rebellious citizens.
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    Exactly...............
     
  11. Zaac

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    I think they both deserved protests and the why goes back to what looks to be prosecutors who had no intent to push for an indcitment in either case.

    9 weeks of the grand jury sitting and hearing from 50 witnesses in Staten Island. 9 weeks. As a prosecutor looking to indict, it simply doesn't take that long to concisely present enough to warrant an indictment.. The threshhold is extremely low.

    Same thing in Ferguson. You spend that much time presenting information to a grand jury. then there is OBVIOUSLY enough evidence to warrant a trial by jury.

    This has TWICE been a travesty of justice.
     
  12. Sapper Woody

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    What I got from his comments is that he's an uneducated person trying to sound more intelligent than he is. I would give fifty to one odds that he never asked what his criminal past had to do with anything.

    When someone speaks the way he did, it's hard to trust anything he says.
     
  13. Sapper Woody

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    I couldn't disagree more. Maybe in NY, but I doubt it. Definitely not in Ferguson. It is very obvious that the officer did nothing wrong. And when I say obvious, I mean as obvious as possible. Only someone with an agenda would place any blame on the officer.
     
  14. Zaac

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    The Prosecutors may ask for whatever indictment they wish as well as giving the grand jury the opportunity to choose from multiple indictment counts.

    If there was insufficient evidence to prove or disprove, it shouldn't have taken 9 weeks in Staten Island or two months( or whatever amount of extended time it took) in Ferguson to deduce.

    My sister lives in Staten Island. There are lots of cops and firemen on the Island. I would imagine that a lot of the folks on the grand jury know a lot of these cops and firemen and realize that this could have been one of their friends. I wouldn't even doubt if there weren't some former cops on that grand jury.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    The actual facts of the eric garner case

    ....The Case.

    The incident was caught on tape by a friend of Garner’s, and shows Garner, who weighed some 400 lbs., being confronted by police over distributing unlicensed cigarettes (colloquially called “loosies”). The video shows Garner resisting arrest, although not violently so – he shouts at officers, “Every time you see me you want to arrest me, I’m tired of this, this stops today…I didn’t do nothing…I’m minding my business, officer…” while waving his arms animatedly -- before Pantaleo comes up behind him and places his left arm around Garner’s neck, bringing his right arm up below Garner’s right arm. Garner raises his hands, falling backwards, at which point three other officers physically grab Garner. He falls to the ground, Pantaleo hanging onto his back with his arm still around Garner’s neck. The officers tell Garner to put his hands behind his head, and Garner complains that he cannot breathe. Pantaleo forces Garner’s head to the cement. It is clear that witnesses do not believe Garner has been put in mortal danger.

    Garner died a few minutes later.

    The autopsy from the medical examiner attributed his death to homicide – meaning death at the hands of another party, not murder, in medical parlance – and stated that he died thanks to “Compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.” But the autopsy further noted that Garner died thanks to acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity, and heart disease.

    The Charges.

    First off, it is vital to note that nobody knows exactly the charges filed with the grand jury against Pantaleo. According to ABC News, the charges could have included “second-degree manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, felony assault, reckless endangerment.” The charges matter, since each individual charge carries with it requirements for different elements. As Professor Eugene O’Donnell of the John Jay Criminal College of Criminal Justice wrote in The New York Daily News:

    As a practical matter — on the basis of past cases — the grand jury would likely indict only if it found malice or some intention to hurt Mr. Garner or that a gross disregard for Mr. Garner’s well-being is what created the tragic ending during this routine arrest. Finding that the officer was careless or that the arrest was bungled will not rise to the level of a crime.

    The Arrest.

    It is vital to separate out the actions of the police from the rationale for their action. That’s because by virtually any logic, it is the height of irresponsibility and depravity for a man to end up dead for selling loose cigarettes. The law that led to this confrontation was pressed forward by former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg; Garner had been arrested some eight times for selling “loosies.” As Lawrence McQuillan reported in The Washington Times:

    In January 2014, tough new penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes took effect in New York City. In July, emboldened by the new law, the city’s highest-ranking uniformed cop, Philip Banks, issued an order to crack down on loosie sales days before Garner died.

    So in terms of police cracking down on Garner, the real responsibility lies with Bloomberg and NYPD Chief Bill Bratton. Idiot laws lead to meaningless deaths.

    The “Chokehold.”

    At issue in this case is the so-called “chokehold” used by Pantaleo. Chokeholds have been banned by the NYPD entirely since 1993; chokeholds are typically defined as holds that prevent people from breathing. Thanks to the video showing Garner stating that he cannot breathe, many pundits have wrongly suggested that Pantaleo was “choking” Garner by depriving him of air from his windpipe. Bratton himself suggested that Pantaleo used a “chokehold,” which is defined by the NYPD as “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”
    That does not appear to have been the case. Garner did not die of asphyxiation, as the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association noted at the time. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones.

    So what was Pantaleo doing? He was applying a submission hold, which is not barred by the NYPD, and is designed to deprive the brain of oxygen by stopping blood flow through the arteries. So say the experts on submission holds.

    It appears that the so-called chokehold was instrumental in triggering Garner’s pre-existing health problems and causing his death, but Garner was not choked to death, as the media seems to maintain. According to Garner’s friends, he “had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.”

    Excessive Force.

    There is no clear and concise guideline available on excessive force. According to Mark Henriquez, project manager for the National Police Use of Force Database Project at the International Association of Chiefs of Police, only .44 percent of all force complaints were considered excessive from 1994-1998.

    So, in deciding whether a grand jury should have indicted Garner, we should assess the following questions:

    Was there any intent by the officers to kill Garner? That would certainly be an uphill case to make, as the grand jury likely found.

    Did the “chokehold” kill Garner, or did his pre-existing health conditions kill him? If Garner had otherwise been healthy, would he have died from use of the “chokehold”?

    If not, would use of the “chokehold” have been reckless?

    Was the use of the “chokehold” reasonable use of force rather than excessive use of force? Was the “chokehold” necessary to subdue him?


    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/12/03/actual-facts-Eric-Garner
     
  16. Zaac

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    I say a travesty in both cases because I believe that due process was bypassed in each case.

    I don't care if you think Officer Wilson was guilty or innocent in Ferguson, if you can spend two months reviewing evidence, then there is plenty to send the case to trial.

    The prosecutors have chosen TWICE to do so.

    It is indeed a travesty of justice.

    The grand jury wasn't convened to determine officer Wilson's guilt or innocence. They were supposed to be determining if there was ample evidence to warrant an indictment and letting a jury decide.

    That's why AGAIN, it clearly points to two prosecutors not attempting to prosecute.
     
  17. Sapper Woody

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    Exactly. And it is very obvious that there is zero evidence saying Wilson was wrong. Unless you count the testimony of people who have been proven to be lying about it. The reason it took so long was that the public wanted an indictment. And so every angle was searched to try and get one. But none could be found.
     
  18. Zaac

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    That would be incorrect. Garner was never placed under arrest because he hadn't done anything. HE wasn't even selling anything that day. And generally when you're being arrested, they read you your rights.

    The guy hadn't done anything and the officer started to choke him. For what?

    For what? What was he doing THAT day that warranted the officer doing what he did?

    For WHAT? He hadn't done anything.

    This is stupid. It shouldn't have even gotten to this point as the guy wasn't doing anything.

    Yep, was breathing just fine before being choked.

    Foolishness. They choked and gang tackled a man who wasn't doing anything and they did NOTHING in terms of CPR or anything to revive that man.

    Irrelevant because he wasn't doing anything that day.

    At issue in this case is the fact that they choked and gang tackled a man who wasn't doing anything wrong.

    A submission hold is used to get folks to acquiesce. What are you trying to get someone to submit for if he wasn't doing anything? That's a clear abuse of authority.

    HE was breathing just fine before being choked.

    They choked a man who wasn't doing anything. It's a clear violation of Garner's Civil Rights. Expect a Federal indictment before things really get out of control.

    Irrelevant as he was alive and breathing just fine before the chokehold and dead after the chokehold.

    To subdue him for WHAT? HE wasn't doing anything.
     
  19. Zaac

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    THAT is not the purpose of the grand jury. The grand jury is convened for the prosecutor to present info to push for an indictment. They are NOT convened to present evidence to disprove or prove guilt or innocence.


    Again, irrelevant as that is NOT the purpose of a grand jury.

    Pure foolishness. It took so long because the prosecutor was presenting EVIDENCE that is generally reserved for a TRIAL. You don't start presenting scientific and forensic information during a grand jury hearing if you're trying to prosecute. That's the purpose of a trial by jury.

    And let me repeat. The process is trial by a jury of your peers. It is NOT a trial by a secret grand jury which is essentially why it took so long.

    It is just about impossible for a prosecutor who wants to prosecute to not present scant information to a grand jury that results in an indictment.

    These were both travesties of justice as these prosecutors apparently have been using grand juries for some time now to bypass due process for cases they don't want to prosecute.
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    i'm sorry it is either out of ignorance or just plain dishonesty to say he wasn't doing anything. He was doing something. He was selling cigarettes illegally.
     

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