1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    you are right by saying that only the elect in Christs day and even in the epistles day were in christ--but you are not looking into the near futurein their day and beholding what the Lord in Finality accomplished in AD 70--in Judgement and the resurrection--and bringing in of the new age :)
     
  2. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    i can now see at least in this thread what you are saying and will have to 100% Agree with you :) but although jesus had the capabilty to be tempted(and according to scripture-He was in like manner of men) whether you say he did or did not have the ability to sin(he was FULLY God also) and God cannot sin--he was not sent in the flesh to try and not sin but suffer what man suffers so he could help us !! he was sent to be obedient as only God can do himself 100% perfectly--God cannot sin :)but suffer he did!!!
     
  3. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    also only the blood of the father enters into the child in the mother's womb--ask a doctor hell tell you-- there was no man's seed in the virgin that brought forth Christ--it was Pure and Holy BLOOD--just as Adam had before he sinned and was a perfect man--if his blood and flesh was corrupt like mankind--we have no hope because a corrupt man/God died for us instead of a Perfect,Holy and Righteous Man/God--but at the same time you are correct by saying he did have the flesh of a man--just was Holy and Pure Flesh :)
     
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    I am glad you can see that Eve had fleshly lusts before she sinned. Jesus also had fleshly lusts and was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin.

    But I would absolutely disagree with you about being tempted. The scriptures tell us Jesus was driven into the wilderness for the express purpose of being tempted.

    Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
    3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Jesus had to defeat Satan as a man to redeem man from sin. It is not difficult for God in his glory to easily defeat Satan. But Jesus was made flesh and was touched with the feeling of our infirmities (weakness). Jesus had been fasting 40 days and was literally starving. The devil knew this, and this is why he tempted Jesus to turn stones to bread. Satan can easily size up our weaknesses and this is where he attacks.

    Jesus overcame Satan the same way a man overcomes sin, but believing, trusting, and obeying the word of God. Each time Satan tempted Jesus, Jesus would respond with scripture "It is written".

    So, Jesus had to endure temptation just like us. It was extremely difficult for him, not easy. He felt the tug and pull of his flesh just like we do.

    But again, temptation is not sin. When you actually give in to temptation and commit the act, that is sin.
     
  5. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    No, this is not correct. Scripture tells us Jesus was made of the "seed" of David according to the flesh.

    Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    This superstition that Jesus avoided a sin nature by being born of a virgin is just that, a silly superstition. The scriptures themselves say Jesus was "made" of the "seed" of David according to the flesh. So, the male seed of father is passed by the mother, this is the only possible way Jesus could have David's seed. And David was a sinner, as was all of Mary's grandfathers all the way back to Adam.

    So, that is just a bogus explanation that should be abandoned. The scriptures tell us Jesus was born of a virgin as a sign. If Mary had not been a virgin, then everyone would have believed Jesus was the son of Joseph or some other man. The virgin birth shows that God is his father. But Jesus had the same flesh we have and was tempted in all points as we are.

    Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Jesus could be touched with the feeling of our infirmities. He got tired, hungry, all feelings we experience. He was tempted in ALL points as we are, but he never obeyed these temptations and sinned.
     
  6. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    I totally agree friend!!!

    i never said jesus didnt suffer temptation as man--he did--and did so on a scale far higher than man can imagine.

    I did say with being Fully GOD also that God cannot sin--yes he was tempted but without SIN :)
     
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    But you said his flesh was HOLY and PURE. Jesus was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. If David had sinful flesh, then how could Jesus have holy and pure flesh?

    See, you are trapped.
     
  8. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Friend i NEVER said man had a nature of sin--i said he always had the ability to be tempted and to sin before he fell and after he fell :)

    Now lets look at that scripture you quoted--where jesus was made of the seed of david--could it not mean that the seed of david was mary indeed and that Christ came through Mary---------------------------------------
    2nd Timothy 2-8: Remember that Jesus Christ OF the seed of david was raised from the dead according to my gospel-----------------------------

    Mary truely was the seed of david she had a earthly father and was the temple that Christ would come through--Jesus Christ OF Mary was raised from the dead ?????? Still he was flesh and blood but was HOLY,RIGHTEOUS
     
  9. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    maybe you are looking at just 1 scriture in the wrong light is all :)
     
  10. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    How do you misinterpret Romans 1:3?

    Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

    This verse says Jesus Christ our Lord was made of the seed of David according to the flesh. Pretty difficult to misinterpret this verse.

    Maybe you are reluctant to accept that Jesus was made of the same kind of flesh as us. Now, it that be true, you have two possibilities.

    #1 Both Jesus and all men were born with sinful flesh.

    #2 Neither Jesus nor any man is born with sinful flesh.

    Take your pick, I choose #2.
     
  11. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Roman's 1-3:Concerning his Son Jesus Christour Lord,which was made OF the seed of david according to the flesh.

    Here again we see made OF the seed of david--could it mean that Mary was the seed of david and that Christ came through mary(which was made of mary)according to the flesh(could it mean that he was to suffer just what man suffered being flesh--temptations and pains and Death ??????

    I would lean in this direction on the text me thinks :)
     
  12. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    It says Jesus himself was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh. I think you know exactly what that means.

    It is just that no one has shown you this truth before. You have been taught lies, you have been taught that Jesus was not made like us.

    This is exactly the error warned about in 1 John 4.

    1 Jhn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    I am telling you that Jesus came in the flesh, the same flesh you have. Others have told you that Jesus did not come in the flesh, or not human flesh.
     
  13. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    i will have to say that the flesh is not corrupt-it was to die even before the fall--unless adam would have partaken of the tree of life first--the corruption lies within--i have searched and have not found anywhere that says the flesh is corrupt--but man was corrupt inward--because they corrupted themselves---

    have a question for you ---------------------------------------------------

    it does say that the DEATH was passed to all mankind--those from adam to moses who didnt sin the transgression of adam still had to die--DEATH was from adam who sinned against a LAW God gave him--from adam to moses was NO law given to those pepole--where NO law is sin is NOT imputed to them--but yet they died the DEATH of adam--now we know when the LAW came about those had Law to break and their Sins were imputed to them from there on--but even from mosed after they still died the DEATH of Adam having not sinned after adam ???
     
  14. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    You are right, Adam's sin caused spiritual death, not physical, because if Adam would have eaten of the tree of life he would have lived forever. We agree on this.

    That said, God did ban Adam and Eve from the tree of life because they sinned, and so their sin did cause physical death in this sense.

    This shows me you have a good head on your shoulders and can think. :thumbs:

    Paul explained in Romans 2 how persons who have sinned without the law die. They die because they have the law written on their hearts and conscience. It is easy to see men before Moses in the Bible knew what sin was, even though there was no law.

    Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

    As you can see, men before Moses were very aware of what was sin. This is why men from Adam to Moses died.

    And this is all Paul is saying in Romans 5:13-14, that men from Adam to Moses, who did not sin after the likeness or similitude of Adam died, proving they were sinners. Paul is simply proving that death passed on all men because all men have sinned.

    See, what you believe is that Adam's SIN passed on all men. You believe all men sinned the same sin as Adam. That is not what the scripture says, it says DEATH passed on all men, for that all have sinned.

    Scripture does not say Adam's sin passed on all men. That is really what Original Sin teaches.
     
  15. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have another question for you :)

    Do you believe that Mary brought forth Christ without having relations with a man--and that it was God who placed Christ into the womb of mary ???

    And can we agree on that the ONLY way Christ was different than us was that he was Fully God ?
     
  16. Winman

    Winman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,768
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, I believe Mary was a virgin, and that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost. I don't understand it, but I believe it.

    Now, Mary did not stay a virgin, Jesus had brothers and sisters later on.

    I agree that Jesus was fully God and fully man. Again, I cannot understand this, but I believe it.

    But Jesus got his flesh from Mary, and Jesus was the seed of David, that is, the seed of David was passed to Jesus through his mother. Jesus's flesh was just like ours in every way.
     
  17. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    well then friend--i first was misunderstanding what you were trying to say--and after further scripture searching and looking at all the posts made on this topic--I must say according to scripture you are correct in what you have stated--and i didnt mean to misunderstand what you meant :thumbs::thumbs::thumbsup:
     
  18. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    and also--im glad to look at scriptures given and searching them out :)

    im happy to do away with tradition--We have enough of that already--we need Truth!!!

    thanks for your posts :)
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    jesus was NOT the exact same flesh as you and I , as he was born without a sin nature!

    IF you say that he was JUST as we are , he was a sinner, and not the Saviour!

    That would be doing what John said, denying Christ has come into the flesh, as he was born under the law like us, not exactly same as us!
     
  20. HisWitness

    HisWitness New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    just exactly what do you define as Sin Nature???

    Adam could be tempted and could sin before the fall as well as after the fall.

    He was still the same after the fall as he was before the fall--meaning he had the ability to be tempted and sin--

    where does it say in the bible that adam because he sinned inherited a sin nature ?
     
Loading...