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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Sep 15, 2010.
Some thoughts by Pastor George...
I agree with him. Why should a person who has been abandoned by a spouse have to remain unmarried until the death of the other party? It is simply unjust.
The same with someone (like me) who divorces an unfaithful spouse. However, I was treated as the bad guy and shunned in churches.
Divorce is always a sin because it denies the grace of God in the marriage. "This marriage is so bad even God can't fix it." Or, "My spouse was unfaithful and even the grace of God is insufficient to bring me to forgive him/her."
With that said, once we acknowledge and confess that to God it is time to get on with our lives. Divorce is not an automatic disqualification for re-marriage. Even though I don't believe in the "innocent party" theory I do believe that all have sinned and all can come to a place of repentance and restoration.
Messed up a marriage? Confess it, and get on with your life. Find a mate you CAN live with, be open and honest about your previous failure, and take seriously the biblical injunctions on how to love your spouse as God wants you to. And enjoy married life.
Not true. There are cases when divorce is not a sin.
You are correct Matt, Jesus made an exception for fornication.
Matt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
If your spouse commits adultery and will not repent you are free to divorce them. Or if you spouse commits adultery and files for divorce you are free to divorce them.
Paul also said that if a believer is married to an unbeliever and that person wants a divorce it is permitted.
1 Cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
If it's a sin, why did Jesus say it was OK?
I don't know many who say what you have stated.
My friend was (what she thought was) happily married. She went on her husband's computer one day to find a paper that he had on there and she stumbled upon the most disgusting stuff. She called me right away and my husband went and copied the hard drive so that she had proof of what was on there. She then went to our senior pastor to speak to him to have advice and she was told to take the children and get out of the house NOW then call a good lawyer. This was absolutely Biblical ground for divorce and at this time, there was a safety issue involved. See, this man not only had child porn on his computer but information that he was involved in such sexually deviant practices that I think I'd get kicked off BB if I mentioned them. This was absolutely not a case of "even the grace of God is insufficient to bring me to forgive him". She HAS forgiven him but with the things that he was doing, he was not only putting himself in jeopardy but his entire family as well. Divorce in this case was not sin. It was the right thing to do.
Are you suggesting there is a marriage so bad that even God can't fix it?
Jesus made it clear it was because of the "the hardness of your hearts."
I'm suggesting that those who are sinning have free will.
Jesus clearly gave permission to divorce in the case of adultery. He clearly made that a different issue than the hardness of hearts.
Yes, a marriage is to bad for God to fix when one party doesn't want it fixed. God will not force reconcilation on a person who is unrepentant. Nor does He force or even ask the other party to remain with one who is unrepentant.
Yep. I spoke of one friend's husband's issues and he saw nothing wrong with what he did and would continue to do. Another friend of mine was married and her husband decided he wanted to be a girl. What do you do in that case? He's unrepentant, thinking there is nothing wrong there. So do you stay?
I will not only suggest it, I will say it... a marriage can be so bad that even God can't fix it.
Why would I say that? Because even God can't trample on man's free will, and if a person keeps cheating on a person willingly, God won't MAKE that person stop. We each have a will....
So in a case where a spouse doesn't want to change, it is impossible for God to fix the marriage.
Unless God kills the disobedient spouse!
Frankly, your limp God troubles me more than any form of divorcement!
Jim, can God MAKE you do anything you don't want to? Or does He give you free will to choose to obey him or not?
Did God give Adam and Eve free will to disobey Him?
If a husband refuses to obey God, and remain faithful in his marriage, God may work circumstances around so that that man will give into God, but I have seen some hard hearted people that have just refused to obey God. In those cases, the marriage can't be saved.
The wife can't make the husband behave.
The husband can't make the wife behave.
And God won't trample on the boundary HE made concerning free will.
God can't make one person love another person.
Haven't you watched Bruce Almighty! LOL... there was some truth in that movie.
"Clearly" or its assumption is getting thrown around a bit too much for this particular topic. What seems most clear to me about this topic is that its not nearly as clear as most on either side would seem to think.
Amen! Jim, I am amazed at how often we agree. Except about that cheesy beard, of course.
so-called free will of man can only be delineated under the absolute sovereignty of God, and what we theologians call the permissive will of God; thus far and no further. Yes God does His thing despite man.
All that can be conclude from this passage is that the unbeliever shouldn't be restrained and that the believer isn't "under bondage". The best that can be said for certain is that a divorce insisted on by an unbelieving spouse doesn't create a moral fault for the believing spouse. IOW, there is to be no church discipline for the divorced person in this case. Whether "not under bondage" is to be taken as permission to remarry is problematic. For one, such a reading would seem to conflict directly with several of Christ's statement on the matter. Could Paul be creating an exception to Christ's teachings? Possible, but such is certainly not clear in the passage.