Marriage

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Caretaker, Jan 6, 2004.

  1. Caretaker

    Caretaker
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    Fifty years ago was 1954. Sixty years ago was 1944. The parents had been through a great depression and the battles and rationing of WWII. We have no idea the trials they endured. Can we even imagine running out of ration stamps and having to barter for sugar, coffee, gasoline. Can we imagine to not be able to buy a new tire?

    Marriage was a sacred covenant, not entered into lightly, or without pre-marital counseling. Divorce had a stigma attached and a child born out of wedlock was illegitimate.

    The majority of children were born to two parents, who bore the battle-scars of the previous two decades.

    Today single parent households are normal, and the moral example of a Father and a Mother has been taken-over by the idiot-box god in the front-room, where little girls cavort as prostitutes and little boys seek drunken debauchery as they party with scarlet women.

    In 1954 a Christian dressed modestly, and would not be found buying liquor, or frequenting the neighborhood bar. A girl who called a boy was considered forward, and a boy would have to meet the parents before he would be allowed to date the daughter. There would be no car dates before the age of 16, and both the boy and girl were under strict curfew. A kiss was a major intimacy, and those girls who would go further than 1st base were loose.

    Today it has become difficult to tell the Christian from the world. We are far into the “Now” generation. The demand for instant gratification supercedes all wisdom. We demand instant intimacy with our instant coffee, serial monogamy with our disposable diapers. Little girls dress as Britney/Madonna, and look like little Pop Tarts. Little boys dress like M&M and look like little rapper thugs. The gilded idol in the front room delivers sex, perversion, and debauchery sandwiched between commercials for a safer and more satisfying hedonism.

    Today the sperm-donor may be into their third relationship, and the Mother’s third boy-friend who she met at the sports-bar last night, might be the latest “father-figure”, in a child’s development. How often does one hear the term, “my baby’s father”, rather than, “my husband”?

    The child today has worshipped consistently at the alter of the television god, and this is the moral fiber which has been deeply engrained, and which endows with a sense of right and wrong.
    Moral absolutes are anathema and, “if it feels good do it”, the alter call. Truth has become relevant to ones desires for gratification, with higher standards being factored-out of the hedonistic equation.

    Fifty years ago the desire of a couple coming to the alter, in the sacred declaration of love and fidelity, was to build a home and a family. They desired to insure stability and a future for their children and grandchildren.

    The sacred has long since been profaned, and how many children are unable to keep track of the multiplicity of twisted relationships, with unknown sperm-donors involved. The once stately family tree has been perverted into a tangled bramble of iniquity, for so many children.

    Morality and modesty have long since left the building, driven out by relativism and compromise.

    2 Timothy 3:

    1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    8: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
    9: But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
    10: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
    11: Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
    12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
    13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
    14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


    __________________
    A Servant of Christ,
    Drew

    Create in me a clean heart,
    O God; and renew a right
    spirit within me. Psalm 51:10
     
  2. Brett

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    What's the point of making such broad, far-reaching generalizations?

    Everything in the past or in the future looks better than the present. You remember the past with fondness, and the future with great hope, but the present with indifference. It's a simple fact revealed through reflecting on one's experiences and mindsets.

    I'll bet that, had we lived in the 1950's or '40s, we would have been pining for the good 'ol days of the 1900s.
     
  3. Brett

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    Just to add something else, why is it that we always remember the moral declines but forget about the moral victories?

    In varying points throughout the history of North America, in various parts of North America, women didn't have many rights, Native Americans were not allowed to vote and were in some situations the helpless victims of bounty hunting (the Beothuk of Newfoundland). Blacks were kept as slaves.

    I do of course find the trend in marriages and abortion to be deeply troubling. But let's not forget that we've made immense progress as well.
     
  4. InHim2002

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    In 1954 black people in the United States were routinely disenfranchised, crosses were burnt on lawns and civil rights protestors were being murdered in Mississippi.

    Things have got much better
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Yes indeed, ... now we only disenfranchise future voters by killing them before they are born. Yes, we are much better off.

    While we should rejoice that progress in civil rights has been made, we should mourn that our nation is not better off morally then it was in the past. Homes are not stronger; people are not takign responsibility for themselves; children are being killed by the millions every day because they inconvenience their irresponsible parents; education is worse even though spending has increased by unconcionable amounts; poverty increases even through billions have been thrown at it. I recently heard that for what this country spends on combatting poverty, we could send a check for more than $30,000 to each family in poverty each year.
     
  6. InHim2002

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    so there was no abortion before the 1950's?

    and abortion is worse than the murder and abuse of black people?

    [ January 06, 2004, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: InHim2002 ]
     
  7. InHim2002

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    I suggest that anyone who doubts the horrors of Americas past have a look at the Without Sanctuary photo exhibition - this is extremely graphic and should not be viewed if you are easily upset, but it is the truth and the truth must be told.
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    Drew, that was a wonderful post. The generation gap is transparently apparent by the comments you have received in response. [​IMG]
     
  9. Tim

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    Brett,

    You might as well give it up. Whatever good news you can muster will only be poo-pooed by the end-of-the-world crowd.

    Some things get worse, some things get better. It all depends on where and when.
    Just the way it's always been.

    Tim
     
  10. Precepts

    Precepts
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    You're insane to pollute the minds of people with the dregs of our past, notably from some one from the UK. What Caretaker reports is the all too common norm for today. What you asked the onlookers to observe thereby suggesting it was the norm back then, and that without the website offering any explaination, just a "movie" of lynchings.

    I wonder what your reaction would be to pictures of the atrocites of your legendary kings and pontiff bishops.

    I attribute this type of grandure to the hellywood mentality.

    Caretaker, well put, and too sorrowfully true.

    We need to wake up to the present, the past is already too far behind us to change.

    Our Bible clearly states "evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse" the problem is they are taking so many innocent people with them into a Christless existense and an eternal hell.

    People don't like the truth and try to cloud it by the past.

    Thank you for your post. I strive to keep my family protected from the degenerating society, not drag them through past mistakes of a few.
     
  11. Tim

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    QS,

    Yes, Paul clearly warned Timothy to beware of evil men-men who would become more evil. But that can't be construed as a universal prediction of history's decline since the first century. That hasn't happened consistently. Thank God for revivals. They contributed to the end of slave-trading in the past, perhaps revival will change the moral degeneracy of the United States.

    But as much as I disagree with the application of your scriptural citation, I agree with the spirit of your concern for those who--in any age--are led astray by evil men to their eternal demise.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  12. Terry_Herrington

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    You're insane to pollute the minds of people with the dregs of our past, notably from some one from the UK. What Caretaker reports is the all too common norm for today. What you asked the onlookers to observe thereby suggesting it was the norm back then, and that without the website offering any explaination, just a "movie" of lynchings.

    I wonder what your reaction would be to pictures of the atrocites of your legendary kings and pontiff bishops.

    I attribute this type of grandure to the hellywood mentality.

    Caretaker, well put, and too sorrowfully true.

    We need to wake up to the present, the past is already too far behind us to change.

    Our Bible clearly states "evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse" the problem is they are taking so many innocent people with them into a Christless existense and an eternal hell.

    People don't like the truth and try to cloud it by the past.

    Thank you for your post. I strive to keep my family protected from the degenerating society, not drag them through past mistakes of a few.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, by all means let's not pollute, as you put it, the minds of people with the truth. Just sweep it under the rug and pretend it did not happen. And you have the nerve to call InHim insane? Maybe you need to repeat these same words while looking into a mirror. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Precepts

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    Mr Herrington, I appreciate your observation of my post.

    May I take the time to respond that digging up bones of a rotting carcase spreads nothing but disease and odor.

    Suggesting the "sweeping under the rug" cop-out is just another symptom of the disease. The root cause of today's problem will never be severed while attacking and trying to prevent the symptoms.

    I never said what INHim posted wasn't true and I never said it should be swept under the rug, besides, Sir, the only things that are "swept" under the rug are the things on the floor.

    If many will notice, the website had all it's refernces to a period of time in the early to almost mid 1900's, maybe due to the cause of the camera's use at the time, but that seems to have nearly if not completely ended as anything that could be reported as today's symptoms.IOW, I fail to see where something buried , I said , BURIED!, in the past is on the floor to be swept.

    It's like saying, "Well, I don't care if the spread of AIDS is on the increase, look at all the people who suffered and died because of Polio."

    Polio is not completely abolished, but as far as reported cases, you never hear of any. When was the last time? When was the last time you heard of a lynching, public or private, in any part of the world?

    When was the last time you heard of another child conceived out of wedlock, another home destroyed due to adultry, another kid just down the street overdosed on drugs, another drunk driver killing some one in an automoblie accident, another case of child molestation, another episode of child abuse, another teenage suicide, etc., etc. The list could go on and on.

    I suppose you could blame to reporting of these on the media, but then you would need to ask your grandmother if these things were so common when she was young, since many times our information comes from our neighbors, about our neighbors. IOW, It's hitting real close to where the apples fall from the tree.

    I have to admit, the closest I have ever been to a lynching is about 10 miles from my home, but that happened in the 1930's, why Bless the Lord, even the Staet of georgia's Historical Society has even posted a "historical marker" on the main thoroughfare, HWY 78, near Athens, just to point to something that grieves society about the past, instead of dealing with the present, but that does eem to be the agenda, to tear down today and forgetting to rebuild our past. SHAME!

    Jesus died on Mt. Calvary so we could look to the past and have a future, not so we could be dragged thru the past and forget a future!

    I look back to something as terrible as His Crucifixion, but I remeber that is where VICTORY was won! Not where atrocities and guilt are so quickly thrown in the face of the not guilty.

    Sinners are guilty of what happened in both cases, Jesus died for all sinners, but I am only guilty of the sins I have committed, I have to clear myself of the lynchings of the past because I wasn't even alive when they happened. But I do suppose we share in the same guilt for being Americans, well I am, and I see you're from Texas, that is still somewhere in the US, right?

    Maybe we can do like the catholic church and dig up the bones of all those pictured in the website doing nothing to prevent the measures and burn their bones in an attempt of our revenge? But then we would have some one actually guilty of a crime against society.

    Maybe, just maybe, now, you could take a little trip across the Atlantic, dig up the differences between the 13 Colonies and Mother England and start the Revolutionary War all over again? Or is that too far back in "forgotten" history for you?

    The things Caretaker reported are all common to the Urban as well as the Rural, from Atlanta Ga. to rural Walton Co. to South Ga. even to the most remote parts of anywhere in the US. Sounds just about like the same coverage of the hellbox that infects our homes as well,

    The mainstream of television is NOT IDream of Jeanie, Gilligan's Island, Father Knows Best, Hazel,etc., but more like sodomites portrayed as parent figures, whoremongers exalted as heros and examples for our children to follow, etc., etc. So get your head out of the sand and look around you, see any bodies hanging from the trees? See anything that looks like today's problems?

    What are you going to do about them, dig up more of the past and parade it all over the world further depressing society into a looney bin and on anti-depressants just to cope?

    Grieving people is what drives them to the things that offer escape from reality, but reality is till there at the door while we're mopping up the water, with the sink stopped up and still running.
     
  14. Precepts

    Precepts
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    Tim, I agree with revival being the cure, but you need to get your head out of the sand and look around you.

    Yes, improvements in society are attributed to revivakl, all to the honour and Glory of God, but we need revival, not grievances. What Caretaker commented on was evidence of the need for revival, now, not digging up the past trying to revive the dead, you have to ressurrect the dead.

    An attempt to deny the same occurances of Timothy's day and say that isn't the same today proves how far one's head is in the sand. It is quite relevant to today. BTW, you can't prevent the end of the world, the Lord promised He'd make it come to an end, and I say GLORY! Because my future is brighter than anything of the past!
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Not legalized. It was recognized for what it is ... the murder of people.

    I never said that. I don't believe it. But in rejoicing about the progress of civil rights for those of different ethnicities, we should mourn the loss the of civil rights for those of different age groups. The murder of the unborn is not better than the abuse and murder of black people. They are both travesties. One is in the past and has been dealt with. The other is current and we as a nation have refused to deal with it.

    I haven't seen anyone here doubting or defending the horrible nature of the past actions of some people. It is not right for you to insinuate that we are. But folks, we are not living in the past. Right now, while you rejoice (and rightly so) about the equality of races, some 3,000 people are being killed, for no reason other than they are an inconvenience. That is not improvement. That is not a better nation.

    It would be very unfortunate for anyone here to suggest I, or anyone else that I have read in this forum, is glossing over the bad things of the past. We most certainly are not. But at the same time, you cannot gloss over the bad things of the present. The truth is that our "better" society has brought more broken homes and parentless children than any generation in history. Our "better" society has brought more crime than any previous generation. Our "better" society has normalized public expressions of depravity and desensitized us to sin. I think in our modern idea of "better" we have left the biblical ideals of godliness and holiness. We can do better.
     
  16. Precepts

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    Brother Larry, [​IMG]

    Now, let's get back to work, God's work!
     
  17. gb93433

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    I would agree with the topic post. But there is more to the subject than just what is written. If we are worse off than the past then how would you compare today with Corinth? At least we don't (or I don't think) have prostitutes in our church services.

    It really does seem like the pendulum is always swinging. It is our response to God that really matters. The world will always be the world but the church must be God's.

    The world will always have its alluring temptations with painted grass instead of real grass. Unfortunately many do not hear the real stuff from the pulpits. We are too afraid to even present scripture in the language it uses. Sin is vulgar why soft peddle it and use language less than what scripture uses. People need to hear about what things are and where deception leads them. The church is made out to be a make me feel good religion. When God confronts me I must first repent of my sin before I can come to Him in holiness. When we pray how can we pray with a sinful heart and have God hear us and answer our prayers.

    But there is too much religious nonsense coming out of so many churches when there should be the power of God. I know I quit going to church by the time I was 16 and had enough until I was confronted by a Catholic roommate. He asked me if I was an atheist. I knew I wasn't but was living like one. I also knew I didn't care for all the nonsense I was hearing but did like the people.

    Young people want to hear the truth and not in flowery language. They can handle tough language. I find it is the adults that want it powder puffed.

    Just a few years I was the youth pastor at a conference and spoke on the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ and finally on running the race to win. I told them about the cost of following Jesus and what that meant on a day to day level. Young people want straight talk. One of the elderly men told me he had been helping out in that conference for 31 years and had never seen so many people come forward during the invitation.

    When I have preached in churches I often see snarled faces among a few adults. At one church I actually had a man want to come and hit me when I preached on gossip. He was the problem in that church. But so often young people thank me. Why the difference. It is a proven fact that the biggest reason why new believers join a particular church is because the preacher has something to say. In a book I read one man stated that at one church he attended as a non-believer he felt as though he had more faith than the preacher.

    Josh McDowell wrote a book called, "Don't Check Your Brains At The Door. He also wrote, " Right From Wrong'. In the book "Right From Wrong" he claims that 25 percent of the youth in our churches are having sex with each other. I know for a fact that it is higher than you could imagine. I also know that even some of our older single people are as well. The issues are not being addressed very often. Take a guess where the highest teen pregnancy rate is in the US?

    When youth have adults who are their role models and the adults tell them sin is wrong it is a proven fact that they are less likely to fall into the trap of sin and promiscuity.

    As adults we must say, "No" loud and clear not just as religious nonsense but as a real voice. We ought to be old enough to give our children and youth many reasons why not sin. I have even heard adults in the church talk as though kids are under a lot of pressure today. I tell youth what God expects some poor me story. I have been there and have not had sex before marriage. My parents were the same way and I know that youth can be the same way. Why shouldn't we expect what God expects from our youth?
     
  18. mark

    mark
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    I was born in 1959, so I am either and older or a middler. Things were not as wonderful as Drew would have us believe, at least not around here. "The Greatest Generation", has done nothing but drop the ball since "winning the big one". If they had our churches would not be empty of THEIR children. I go to church with about 450 on Sunday morning. There are a lot of older people, but only one family has their children (my age) in church, even though most live in town. The children have turned their back on their parent's faith. Why? I speculate they didn't find it geniune.
    Additionally, I was talking to my Dad about the "good old days". I was born 9 years after my parents married, and was the oldest child, HOWEVER, in his graduating class of 1929, there were 30 graduates. 24 "had to get married" or had children out of wedlock. Almost the same was true of my mom's class 4 years later (in small town Iowa) He also told me that of this dad's family. There was my grandfather and he had 6 sisters, all of whom were pregnant before marriage. Now we are not talking about the scum of society. They were the "moneyed" of the town, a "good family". Not everyone in the 30's, 40's and 50's were pure as the driven snow. Just ask your momma.
     
  19. Precepts

    Precepts
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    It's an outright shame when churches loose their youth to the world, and I'm NOT bashing anyone's church, but we preach like wild men and real tough, but the young people know we love them.

    we've got third generation children of the "charter" members here, that is a miracle of God.

    Now that doesn't go w/o saying, we've had many pass through, but we left the church that "open armed" the people who left. Most are not even in church now, one family has left to pastor.

    What gets me, and the young people I might add, is that when people do leave, so much negative things are said aboout them, of course they eventually turn to the world for love, friendship, which should never be called that beyond love, even entertainment.

    I don't believe the church is a place to entertain, mind you, but when things are so dead in the service, entertainment is sought after.

    I preach if you're really saved, act likeit: you've just got eternal life and are only going to live as long as God does, so why are you so depressed? Then I've been known to "pump and prime" further by giving my testimony, and in doing that I can get real "excited".

    I just passed a church with a banner slogan that said "Rock-n-Worship", now you can blast away at me if you want, but that is a prime example of bringing in the world to entertain because you're "god" ain't big enough, interesting enough to "bring them in".

    I will go this step further, Sinners BELONG in church! Prostitutes,thieves,murderers,liars, gang members, etc. If you don't believe this then get otu! You don't even rate the privilege of calling yourself a church.

    We all fit into the catagory of being a sinner at one time, so to say they don't belong in the House of God is blasphemous. we just need to be real to bring them in.
     
  20. j_barner2000

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    I agree with Pastor Larry. As a society, we have not gotten much better... We have just substituted one set of sins for another. I truly believe it will not get better, but slowly worse and more Godless as time winds on.
     

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