Marriage

Would you agree that the Lord's standards are set in Scripture? If so, would you not agree that church discipline should be issued for breaches of Scripture exclusively?

I have difficulty equating a pastor's extrabiblical standard with one that is in Scripture.

 

I assume that you must be Ann's husband. If you had been following this you would have known that this has nothing to do with you or your church or even any church requiring marital counseling before they will marry a couple in the church although your wife for what ever reason keeps trying to make that the focus and I simply respond to her off topic replies. You might ask her about that.
This has to do with a pastor who thinks he has the right to tell two people how long they need to know each other before he will marry them which in this case was 1 year. That is not about any biblical standard, but about a pastor who thinks he can promote his personal agenda on his people and claim the office of pastor as his authority.
My contention was and is that all church policy should be directed by the word of God directly or indirectly from precepts and/or principles given in scripture which in itself gives a very broad area to work in rather then just making policy or standards because it seems good to the pastor or church. Cults and abusive pastor are famous for that kind of tactic.

Now as far as your standards for marrying couple I am more then glad to point out what i see as flaws based on God's commands and based on your statements if you desire, but this issue is about the idea that the church or pastor can bully their/his standards on the flock or he will refuse to marry them.
So is it wrong for a pastor to rely on his wisdom to make standards and policy?Yes it is because he is suppose to be relying on the word of God either from direct revelation or indirect standards with comes from scripture and is basing his decision on God's wisdom not his own.
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Thank you for making my point. Yes I certainly do agree, and this is the point. If the standards of the church and/or pastor are not of such a nature where church discipline can be administered from a biblical standpoint when not followed then the standard that the church/pastor has set is not of God and should not be policy. The church was never intended to be governed by the whims of men no matter how sincere they might think of themselves to be..

 

While I agree in principle with the above statement, I must also add a "not necessarily." I have known pastors who were/are Godly men that "set standards" that did not come as a result of prayer, but rather their own decision as to what they thought was best for the congregation. Some had to be later reversed when the folly of such "standards" became evident.

 

Men who seek to guide the church wihtout prayer and rely on self are not godly men.

 

Agreed.

If college is both their goals... absolutely. If college is one of their goals...abosolutely

Depends. In the ancient days this was more common. In our society it becomes problematic. How well do the in-laws get along with the couple? Also the spouse who's parents these are not must understand they will be the fall guy for every wrong thing. But most of all it just depends.

Yes. Spiritual compatability is very important.

Depends on the person who's SBC. SBC is wide ranging. It may prove a difficulty especially if the SBC is a Graduate of Gordon Conwell and the IBF a Graduate of Bob Jones.

Not at all. I like taller women.

Never. Its like saying we're going to fail anyway might as well keep what is mine. The idea of marriage is for each person to lay down their lives for the other person and share all things in common. Provide a stable environment to raise children. A pre-nump destabalizes all that.

Never unless she wants to assert her individualness above her husband. Usually, women who do this attempt to be the primary earner and what has been commonly known as "wearing the pants" in the family. There is no sense of unity even with a hyphenated name.

 

The choice may be the right one but you will never know since you did not check with the Lord. So how you came about it was wrong (evil). It is too bad that you have leaders that think so much of themselves that do not need God in there decisions for the church. Many churches today are missing godly leaders and leaving God out of His church do do His business with our own desires or beliefs is not a godly choice.
This is a road to a fall. Uzzah did a good thing in his mind by keeping the ark from falling off the cart, but God struck Him dead. he is a good example of people doing what seems right in their own eyes. By the way Uzzah is an example of how God feels about doing thing our way even if they seem good and today is not the day of judgment so just because we do not get struck dead does not mean we will get away with our rebellion. Also the man who wanted to follow Jesus after he had the demons cast out but was turned away. Again to think we can do good by our own ideas is thinking too much of ourselves and heading for a fall.

 

[SIZE=+0]Any decision the church makes without the Lord that sets the policy of the church is of evil. So to your first question, it is of evil because it is not our choice to make without seeking the Lord. The church is not our church nor the pastors church or all the members church. It is the Lord's church and He is to build it not us. We are to simply submit to his directives and leadings. If there is no clear written directive given on an issue that sets policy then it needs to be taken to the Lord in prayer weighing all the possibilities against what we do have in the word. Now the fact that you cannot believe that is because you choose not to. That is rebellion.

Let me give a earthly example. Let's say i am a multi-millionaire. I have this close friend who knows me very well. I have no one else to take care of my wishes for my estate after I die so i ask them if they would carry out my wishes for my estate after i die doing so in the manner in which i would do them and they agree.
Let's say i am somewhat eccentric and i really like animals and i am always giving large sums to animal protection. In fact i have many animals and I buy diamond studded clothes for them and feed them the best meat and food I can find but I never give to any charities. My friend knows all about this.
On the other hand my friend is also rich and gives regularly to the church large sums of money. Then i die. In my will I give some directions as to my estate , but I do not cover everything. So my friend who knows me makes the final choices with my money in my name after I die.
If this friend does what is right they do not give my money to the church even though that is good. I did not do that while alive and my friend should not do that now that I am dead. They are suppose to be acting on my behalf the way i would do it with my money, not as they feel what is right for them or even for me. They need to give all my money to animal protection just as i did when i was alive. other wise they are going against the standards i set as a pattern in my life and those going against what i expected them to do when i asked them to care for my estate.

The same scenario is with the Lord. This is not our church. This is His and if we decide to do His bidding without prayer when it comes to church policy then it is no longer His church but ours and we are in big trouble.

You asked If I asked God if i should go to church. No. He has already commanded me to not forsake the coming together so i know His will in that area. I do however ask Him where less i be in rebellion.
As to preaching the gospel. I already have a command to go and tell the gospel if that is what you mean by preaching it. So I know. I do pray that he lead me to where and who. If you mean stand in the pulpit in the authority of a pastor/elder then i do not do ask about that as i cannot meet the qualifications so i already know His desire.

About the gas station or going out to dinner. That has nothing to do with church business. I do seek to obey 1Thess 5:17. Why is it when someone is in rebellion and it is clearly pointed out they always resort to defending their sin with satan’s tactics?

In other words you are not to follow me. You are to follow the Lord and you have clearly stated that in some choices for governing the church that your church does not seek the Lord, but follow the leading of men instead. That is the evil I am pointing out.

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[SIZE=+0]First the church is not an employee employer relationship. Second yes those things you mentioned should all be prayed about to be wise stewards. I realize that in this post modern age and it is not the practice to follow the Lord by His leading through prayer. However we are to pray about all things in regards to the church. Instead we do it our way and if we get in a mess we pray for the Lord to fix it. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN![/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]Why would it not be wise to pray about what color carpet to get? You could get a color that causes unrest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]And why would it not be wise to pray about what plumber to use? You might get one that rips you off or makes things worse.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Why is it not wise to pray what company to get a new projector light bulb? the wrong one might send the wrong bulb or over charge.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Why is it not wise to pray if you should continue with this coffee service or go with the other one?[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=+0]Ann what you are trying to defend is nothing short of rebellion and justifying it with human logic. There is little wonder why the church is in the state it is in with the logic that the church leaders can make decisions without the Lord.[/SIZE]

 

With that attitude, the truth be told I would wager that your church does very few baptisms per year.

 

Not in the slightest! Sanctified common sense, and thoughtful leadership, taught in the Bible.

"Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established" (Prov. 4:26).