Martial Arts and the Christian

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Deacon, Aug 16, 2003.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,969
    Likes Received:
    128
    We have the opportunity to have a Karate seminar at our church, presented by an active member of our congregation.
    This young gentleman has developed a seminar that assists the participant in disciplining both the body and the spirit using biblical principles rather than the traditional eastern philosophies. The free seminars will start in early fall (September) and then perhaps have weekly classes to follow.

    Is this type of fighting against Christ’s pacifist teachings of turning the other cheek?

    Isn’t Karate closely associated with an assortment of eastern religious thought.
    What about the meditation, the chants, the clapping, or even the bowing before others?

    Is Karate compatible with Christian principles?

    Rob
     
  2. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,539
    Likes Received:
    208
    As a form of physical exercise and conditioning, it's not bad.

    But the meditation, calling the teacher "sensei" (master), etc.--not worth doing.

    As for turning the other cheek--that advice was for those that do things to you. We each still have a responsibility to protect those that God has given into our care.
     
  3. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Several years ago I took lessons in Shao-Lin-Do Kung Fu for a couple of years and even passed by black belt pretest. I refused to take the official test because the Sensei believed that if he bestowed a black belt on you that he had some sort of authority over you and I would not allow that. What I had been participating in for two years made me part of a Buddist sect. Is that compatible with Christianity? No. I had been fooling myself (not really) into thinking I was just in it for the exercise and to learn a fun skill and the comradery with my friends. I did not buy into the eastern mysticism but some others did and I, by my mere attendance, was encouraging them. I was, in reality, testifiing to my church that this was really not what it really was...Buddism. I am embarrassed that I took part in this but, am more concerned with at least warning those who are about to jump in feet first. STAY AWAY FROM KARATE in any form. AntiChristian philosophies cannot be cleaned up enough to make them palletable. The essence of karate is eastern mysticism. Without it, it isn't karate. Seperating the two is like seperating the spirit of competition from football. I have no thought that anything I say will sway anyone but I at least had to try.
     
  4. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    With multiple thousands of Karate Champions in the Japanese uniform, we whipped 'em, lock, stock and barrel. That's what I like to think about and it did bother me to find out that our US Marines were being trained in a method of fighting used by our then defeated enemy. As far as being Christian or not....just teach our boys to the Christian way handle a Glock or Smith correctly and safely and Kung Fu charlie ain't got a chance. Pull the trigger and sing, "Have thine own way Lord, have thine own way". Saw a bumper sticker the other day I really liked, "The Dueling Society was a polite Society".
    Thanks -------Bart
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,969
    Likes Received:
    128
    The form of Karate most commmon around here, East of Philly, is Tie Kwan Do, a Korean form of the martial arts.

    About 10 years ago, I participated in classes for a year or so to see what it was all about (and to get in shape).

    The leaader was a 6th degree balck belt (named Mr. Kim -of course)and an attender at a Presbyterian Korean Church. The was no mention of any religious ties to the art. The only meditation I observed was a single black belt who would sit quietly in the corner for a while before joining class. Even so I was uncomfortable with the conotations associated with the sport.

    There are some American Karate groups and even a Christian Karate Association though. So the separation from religion has been acceptable to some.

    I plan to attend the seminar just to see to my satisfaction that things can be done correctly and biblically.

    Rob
     
  6. Mike McK

    Mike McK
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a great idea. Kind of like what Chuck Norris is doing now.

    First of all, I don't believe that Jesus is a pacifist.

    Second, "turn the other cheek" is referring to a specific instance. While it can be a good principle, He wasn't condemning self defense.

    Not necessarily.

    As a teenager and into my eary twenties, I studied Akido and there was never any focus on any Eastern philosophy.

    Now, as a result of PT from a accident I had several years ago, I study Tai Chi. Tai Chi is rooted in Taoism, but doesn't necessarily retain those connections today, depending on the discipline you study.

    I meditate every day. Meditating isn't a bad thing, depending on what you're meditating on.

    Is this a bad thing?

    It can be, yes.
     
  7. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    My two youngest want to take it.
    The place I am hoping to have them join is a Christian center. They stress that there are no eastern philosphies used, and that as a group they expect everyone to treat each other with behavior becoming of Christ's followers. I was a bit worried about having the youngest join with the concerns I have for her health/development, but they actually said they would recommend it and that the way it's done may even help her with her physical and emotional development. We're allowed to watch the classes and the girls can participate in a couple before we decide whether or not to join.
    I don't see how in the world it can be an unchristian sport any more than basketball or football can be.
    Gina
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having taken several years of the Japanese Martial Art, Go Ju Ryoo, and being a first degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do in the USTF, I would like to try to address a few issues. I am not going to argue rather or not a Christian should or shouldn't participate because I think that is up to you to decide and doesn't really matter that much to me. That being said, here is some information:

    Bowing: It is not worshipping somebody, it is merely a sign of respect, like shaking hands here in America. I think it is just a cultural thing.

    Sensei: I think this is just another way of acknowledging somebody as a teacher, someone who has mastered the art, or an elder. Again, I don't think it is elevating them to a God like level.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina,

    Are there some health issues that give you concern about her participating? Even if there aren't, might I advise you (if you haven't already thought of this) to consult her physician about participating? Especially if there are some health problems, though. Most places that do this sort of thing suggest that you get a physical done before starting. This way, if there are some health problems, the physician can advise you about whether there are things she can do and if there are some things she shouldn't do. This could help save a lot of heartache.

    Hope this helps,

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,969
    Likes Received:
    128
    Thanks Joe, I'm signed up for my first class next Tuesday. I could use a bit of exercise, and the church could use a good laugh watching me. [​IMG] I'm about as flexible as a two by four.

    Rob
     
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    25
    Go, ATA!! :D

    Deacon, I think there is little doubt that eastern martial arts are tied to eastern mysticism and/or religious thought, but the chances of your finding a martial arts studio that has thoroughly westernized are excellent.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go, ATA!! :D

    </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, the ATA is ok if you're still living in the past... ;) [​IMG]

    But the USTF is the way of the future. I am just a bit partial. Actually, I understand the USTF split off from the ATA a long time ago. Honestly, I have watched several people from the GTF and have been very impressed with their technique and style. What about you, Robert. Have you ever had any experience with the GTF? They are pretty sharp.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    Karate is a discipline, not just a physical fighting technique. Physically, it's meant to be used for drfense. Christians who learn martial arts are not biblically forbidden from doing so, any more than learning fencing, or aerobic kickboxing.


    Yes, but many philosophical thoughts found in eastern culture are compatible with Christianity.


    Meditation is acceptible for the Christian. Many CHristians meditate. The Bible even tells us to "meditate" upon certain things. DOn't let the word scare you. The clapping and bowing are signs of respect to the the dojo, other students, the teacher, and the art form. It's not a recognition of any supernatural being. Hence, it's not inappropriate for the Christian karate student to engage in.


    In and of itself, yes.
     
  14. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,969
    Likes Received:
    128
    There isn't an organization (like the ATA) that is sponsoring the group, just a gentleman who has studied and taught it in the past.

    There will be no dues or class fees other than for the costs of materials (if needed).

    The leader has said that many of the disciplines were adapted to biblical teachings by himself. One of those disciplines is memorization.


    Rob
     

Share This Page

Loading...