martin luther had the wrong dream

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by massdak, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    he dreamed of a social gospel over the biblical gospel
    he had a great large audience and blew it, he did not testify for the Lord
    what spirit filled preacher would let such an opportunity pass?
    where did martin luthers dream come from?
    the liberal media loves his i have a dream speech,
    political correctness makes any comments and concerns for questioning a persons motives of another race akin to being a bigot. enough social dreaming, we are one human race, the gospel should be more important then social ills.
     
  2. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    1Cr 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
     
  3. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin Luther King did, indeed, testify to God during his speech in Washington. Please go back and read the speech. I would also invite you to read King's "An Autobiography of Religious Development."

    As much as you'd like to believe that we are one race, your view is also the minority. In the 1960s, the black race was subject to all kinds of persecution in the South. Segregation and outright violence was quite rampant. It was through the gospel message that many of them adopted a non-violent approach to battling these social ills.

    The gospel of Christ is also a social gospel. The good news is that Christ came to set every captive free, to bring people rest. He commanded us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, visit the captives in prison, and give water to the thirsty. He commanded us to love our neighbors - ALL our neighbors, even those who persecute us. He told us that we should do unto others what we would have them do unto us.

    The majority of the Christian community in Alabama (and I would assume the rest of the South in which segregation was rampant) did not obey Christ's commands in these areas.

    If we follow the gospel, we work to repair the social ills in this nation. There's no conservative or liberal about it. What are we doing to further the gospel in our lives?
     
  4. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Martin Luther King did, indeed, testify to God during his speech in Washington. Please go back and read the speech. I would also invite you to read King's "An Autobiography of Religious Development."

    As much as you'd like to believe that we are one race, your view is also the minority. In the 1960s, the black race was subject to all kinds of persecution in the South. Segregation and outright violence was quite rampant. It was through the gospel message that many of them adopted a non-violent approach to battling these social ills.

    The gospel of Christ is also a social gospel. The good news is that Christ came to set every captive free, to bring people rest. He commanded us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, visit the captives in prison, and give water to the thirsty. He commanded us to love our neighbors - ALL our neighbors, even those who persecute us. He told us that we should do unto others what we would have them do unto us.

    The majority of the Christian community in Alabama (and I would assume the rest of the South in which segregation was rampant) did not obey Christ's commands in these areas.

    If we follow the gospel, we work to repair the social ills in this nation. There's no conservative or liberal about it. What are we doing to further the gospel in our lives?
    </font>[/QUOTE]are you saying that martin luther did give the gospel in his speech? could you explain what you mean by saying the gospel is also a social gospel?
    i think you have it so very wrong, your blaming Christians for not obeying the command to feed the hungry and so on. are you saying we Christians need to learn from the unbelievers? do you really think that a social gospel will make for better moral people? born again believers are what is needed. God conforms believers in to better people.
     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't you mean Martin Luther King, massdak? The social gospel is arguably an integral part of the gospel if for no other reason than you cannot evangelise the dead; also James' letter makes it quite clear that it is insufficient merely to love by words alone.

    Robin Gamble, an evangelical Anglican based in Bradford is a prime example of this. He would seek to tie together evangelism with social change, and he draws a distinction between what he calls the ‘social gospel’ and the ‘spiritual gospel’: “The social gospel sees with a very clear eye that people are living in terrible housing conditions; that their children have little or no educational future; that the aged and disabled are being brushed aside by the enterprise culture. It relates all these and similar issues to God’s loving concern for every part of our lives, and then bases a mission strategy on the need for the church to do something practical and positive about such social evils…Social gospel people tend to be involved with community and maybe political compaigns (sic), and usually come from a liberal or middle-of-the-road theological background…The spiritual gospel attitude sees with an equally clear eye that people are living without Christ; that they have little or no experience of the joy of knowing God in this life, and nothing to look forward to in the future. It relates this to the love of God and the saving death of Christ, and then bases a mission strategy on the need for the church to reach out and tell people of Jesus and his gift of eternal life…Spiritual gospel people tend to be very involved with congregational and maybe even evangelistic campaigns, and usually come from an Evangelical or Anglo-Catholic background.”

    A major theme of debate within this Left of centre school of thought is which of the two needs (if at all) – evangelism or social activity – should be the priority for the Christian. This is a point that exercises both Sider and Gamble. Having set out the two apparently competing needs above, Gamble goes on to say, “The Jesus gospel holds together and actually puts into practice the social and the spiritual gospel. It represents the full depth and breadth of God’s love, without missing anything out. It confronts sin and offers salvation in two overlapping zones, the corporate zone and the individual zone.” Having thus apparently allied himself with the liberation theologians who state that salvation can pertain to societies, Gamble goes on to qualify this: “The Jesus gospel brings judgement for the victimisers and compassion and healing for the victims, into this corporate zone…[and] brings judgement against all evil, but it also offers forgiveness and salvation to all evil-doers who are prepared to change their ways and believe” .

    Although I am not usually in agreement with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the head of the Catholic Church’s successor to the Inquisition, I find much with which to agree in his statement that “liberation is first and foremost liberation from the radical slavery of sin…As a logical consequence, it calls for freedom from many different kinds of slavery in the cultural, economic, social and political spheres, all of which derive ultimately from sin…[emphases on]…liberation from servitude of an earthly and temporal kind…seem to put liberation from sin in second place.”


    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  6. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please go back and search online for his speech to Washington. Compare his speech with the commands and sermons of Christ. Try to find the similarities.

    If they are not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison, and giving water to those who thirst then they are sinning. They are expressly going against a command of Jesus Christ.

    I'm saying that Christians are not living up to what Christ expects of us. That there are unbelievers who do a better job at clothing, feeding, visiting, and giving water should give all Christians pause and cause us to revisit our faith and our purpose as Christians.

    It will show the love of God, which can in turn may lead a person to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, so I guess the answer is "yes."

    Born again believers who follow the commands of Christ are what was needed. Christ called for social change. He called for us to reach out to the downtrodden. If we are ignoring that call, we are squarely outside of God's will.
     
  7. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe your remarks would be appropriate if he were preaching in a church, but he was leading a civil rights rally.
     
  8. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought you were talking about Martin Luther from the 16th century. I was about to have my panties all up in a wad.
     
  9. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe your remarks would be appropriate if he were preaching in a church, but he was leading a civil rights rally. </font>[/QUOTE]preaching only in a church? the gospel is more for outside the church, why only preach to the choir?
     
  10. massdak

    massdak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    and after rereading his speech i cannot find one reference to the Lord Jesus.
    martin luther king a baptist minister who was to make a very important speech gave neither gospel or reference to the Lord Jesus Christ.
    what a shame, i say shame on martin luther to miss that opportunity.
     
  11. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    And instead of his death being used, in some way, to bring God the glory, riots and bigotry broke out. I remember my cousins having to run for their lives in Chicago because they were being chased by a crowd of angry black people, with the intent to kill them. They were 8 & 9 years old. He could and should have used more time preaching his cause for Christ. How many of his followers had never heard the Gospel and are now in hell, suffering because they hadn't heard?
     
  12. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    The Negro and the Constitution (in The Cornellian, May 1944)
    We cannot be truly Christian people so long as we flaunt the central teachings of Jesus: brotherly love and the Golden Rule.

    An Autobiography of Religious Development (Nov. 1950 essay)
    It is quite easy for me to think of a God of love mainly because I grew up in a family where love was central and where lovely relationships were ever present.
    My parents would always tell me that I should not hate the white man, but that it was my duty as a Christian to love him.
    Even though I have never had an abrupt conversion experience, religion has been real to me and closely knitted to life. In fact the two cannot be separated; religion for me is life.

    Martin Luther King
     
  13. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, I would have prefered he focused more on the gospel as well. But there was injustice in this land (which still exists today I might add) in that people of darker color are not treated fairly, given the same opportunities, and definitly looked down upon. This was sin and needed to be corrected. It should have been being preached agaist by the white preachers, so that Martin Luther King would not need to hold huge rallies and could focus on the gospel. It was ignored by the white preachers and is still ignored today. Jesus wasn't preaching a social gospel yet he preached justice, fairness, mercy for the poor, etc; a lot of which we ignore when it comes to the inner city.

    To sum, I agree with massdak general complaint, he certainly wasn't sold out for the gospel as Paul. But if he was to preach to the gospel, he might as well have preached it to the white folks, for, believing and trusting in Christ, they could then do what Christ says and look after the oppressed and love their neighbor as themselves . . . even their black neighbor.
     
  14. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is a footnote from Frank Theilman's NIV Application commentary on Phillippians (229) (in the Contempory Significance part, this is obviously not exergesis)


    I think it might be simplistic to look just at these statistics to determine their plight, but it is rather frustrating.
     
  15. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a very common problem here in New Jersey. Even though the help wanted signs hang on the windows, white people are overlooked for jobs because they are white. We are subject to rude and prejudiced people at the checkout, or customer service counters because we are white. Try showing christian love to these very bigoted people and you are told that there is nothing that can be done about it because it has become a racial issue in the unemployment office. Is it in the churches that we find the prejudism? It's in the public places today, and it does not only affect the black skinned people. All of the current solutions to this ongoning problem are not solving the problems. MLK's speech did not offer a solution to the problem. If he was as spiritual as being claimed, he would have seen this and used God's way, which is very clear in the Bible. I think his focus was on skin color, not the love of Christ.
     
  16. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    1,283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well there you go. MLK offered a solution, namely, stop being racist. If these people at the customer service center listened to his speech then they would not have treated you as they did.
     
  17. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    You had me a little confused Dak....I thought this thread was going to be about Marting Luther...not Martin Luther King Jr.

    I think he had a fine dream. It was certainly a lot better than what the Black Panthers were saying in the same time frame.
     
  18. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I was reading a autobiography of the great evangelist, Billy Graham. Now, I don't have time to recite the exact source--the volume is in my library--all I know is--its there and I read it and if you want it--give me time and I'll look it up! Just to prove that not all whites were and are prejudice to blacks.

    Anyway, Brother Graham was to preach a crusade in Los Angeles--and was "walking over" the crusade site before it started. He noticed a roped off section toward the back of the site and inquired, "Why is this section roped off??"

    The reply came back that it was roped off because that was the section the blacks were going to be in--seperated from the whites!

    Brother Graham replies, "Take the ropes down or I don't preach!" The crusade was "off" if the ropes didn't come down!!

    The ropes came down! The gospel message of the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ was preached from a white man's heart to a black man's heart! Billy Graham DID what Martin Luther King, Junior never even DREAM about! Preached the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to all nations of all the earth!

    Blackbird
     

Share This Page

Loading...