Mary Statue raises hackles...

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Bro. Curtis, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Bro. Curtis

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    LINK

    First of all, I don't believe that Mary has any power at all, certainly not over a garden. Secondly, I can assume that the folks who do put her out to watch over a garden don't read their Bible.

    But if they want her out there, then I think it should be allowed. People are just hyper-sensitive to the issue nowadays, and associate Mary with mainstream Chritianity.
     
  2. Catholic Dad

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    Bro Curtis,

    Can you please show me the line or paragraph in the linked article that states that the statue was put there to "watch over the garden". I only see in the article that the statue is there as a statement of the homeowners devotion (NOT worship) to Mary. It appears to me that you are creating a strawman here. If I'm wrong and the article did mention "watching over the garden", please point it out to me.

    In Christ,
    Learner
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

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    Guilty as charged, my apologies. In New England, every other house has a statue of Mary over their flower garden, so I guess I thought the same thing happened there.

    I still believe that they should be able to have it there, if they want it there.
     
  4. Gina B

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    If one will go to this extent, why not ask for a little help with the flowers to? :confused:
    Gina
     
  5. Monergist

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    A Mary Statue, in and of itself, is nothing. Do they also force home-owners to remove trees from their yards since some worship trees?

    But it is not a christian symbol. It isn't anything. Unless its being worshipped. Then its an idol.
     
  6. Brother Adam

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    I'm there with you Gina, giving your body and soul to Mary is a little extreme. Respecting and loving Mary, and understanding that she is blessed among woman is one thing. This is....too much.

    If I had to ask myself- what would it look like if someone worshipped Mary instead of just showing devotion to her, I'd look for not just a statue (I'm okay with art), but someone that they bow to in worship, and prayers that would give someone to Mary, that would belong to God alone.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Adam - which prayers would you consider "for Mary" vs "for God"?

    Bob
     
  8. Abiyah

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    "By banning the Virgin Mary statue while allowing others, the homeowners association is clearly discriminating against Catholics because of their religious beliefs," . . . "There are no rules covering lawn ornaments or statues in the bylaws," Anthony Bambu said.

    I hope they do sue, if this continues. Next, they will be telling the people what they can have in their houses.
     
  9. JustAsIAm

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    They should be allowed to have their statue without question. This is not a religious issue because they allow other lawn ornaments. There was a case, I think in Maryland, where a neighbor took offense to his neighbors pink flamingos. The rest of the homeowners association rallied around the woman and her ornaments.

    This is bigotry plain and simple.
     
  10. Catholic Dad

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    Apology accepted. Thank you for being willing to admit a mistake.

    In Christ,
    Catholic Dad
     
  11. thessalonian

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    What same thing Curtis?
    Your bias speaking through as if we deify these statues. I have a statue of Mary and plant a garden around it in honor of her (not specifically the statue). It is not that I am having her watch over the garden. This is just silliness. It's like saying I gave my wife roses on Valentines day so that she would watch over them. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Brother Adam

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    Sorry Bob, I completely missed your post.

    Bob said:

    Adam - which prayers would you consider "for Mary" vs "for God"?

    I'm not so hung up on titles or intercession of the saints, but there is still language that bothers me, such as what Gina posted:

    a surrender of oneself into her hands, and a fervent, frequent and confident seeking of her aid. This usually comes through some form of consecration to the Mother of God.....

    Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, in the presence of all the heavenly court, I choose thee this day for my Mother and Mistress. I deliver and consecrate to thee, and to thy Immaculate Heart, as thy child and slave of love, my body and soul, my goods, both interior and exterior, and even the value of all my good actions, past, present and future; leaving to thee the entire and full right of disposing of me, and all that belongs to me, without exception, according to thy good pleasure, for the greater glory of God, in time and in eternity....


    Talk about giving our body and souls to Mary is...err...no. I understand Catholics believe Mary is the dispenser of all graces, and while that seems a bit of stretch to me, it doesn't change soteriology so much as Catholics would no longer be Christians.

    I don't know, I've studied Mariam doctrines quite a bit, but like I said, its the language used here that I'm not used to and I don't know the intent behind it, but from my point of view, it is bothersome.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

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    So you give your wife roses once a year, but you build an entire garden to honor Mary. Who does more for you ?

    I think I already know your answer.

    But I support your right to have a statue in your garden. I just think it's silly.
     
  14. thessalonian

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    :rolleyes:

    So, instead of acknowledging your nonsense you just slide on to more. How do you know how often I give my wife flowers? How could it possibly be bad to honor the Lord's mother with flowers even if she were not with him in heaven which I am quite certain that she is. Aren't you? I have see Protestants who are unwilling to admit that she is. And I am quite certain that he knows that we are honoring his mother. I can believe that he would mind. I have honored friends mothers in the past. What greater a freind do I have than Jesus. Mary is the spiritual Mother of us all for she bore Christ who brought life to the world, giving us life through her. Some day you will come to that realization. Hopefully not before you face her son with an attitude about his mother. :(

    As for statues being silly I am sure that you would have thought the Cheribum over the Mercy seat and the figures in Solomon's temple silly. And how aghast you would have been had you seen those thousands of Jews bowing down before the Ark of the Covenant in Josh 7.

    Blessings
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    Once again, you use a ridiculous argument.

    In Joshua 7, we see SPECIFIC instructions on the construction & purpose of said cherubim, now don't we ? Can you point in the bible a SPECIFIC way to build a statue of Mary, and what the purpose of the statue would be ?

    Huge difference between the two. Huge.
     
  16. thessalonian

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    Joshua 7? You do know your Bible don't you?
    Curtis slides on some more. The purpose of the Cherubim was to help the Jews reflect on God and his protection through his angels of their nation if they were faithful to him. The statues aren't the big thing with regard to Mary. They are only reminders. We use scripture (and Sacred Tradition) to build the image of who she was and God's purpose for her. You think our focus is on the statue. It is not.

    Did God precisely specify the bronze serpant? I don't believe so. As I recall he just said build one and put it on a pole. That story really shows the dividing line that God intends with regard to images. The serpant was destroyed once they started worshipping it as God. But before that time they could look upon it and as long as they acknowledged the healing from God they were healed.

    Blessings
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    So you at least admit there is biblical support for the Bronze Serpent, and Cheribum.

    Where's the support for statues of Mary ?

    And yes, I didn't look it up, you mentioned Joshua 7. Caught me.
     
  18. thessalonian

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    Well, if I were to believe that everything was in the Bible I would have a problem. But I believe that 2 Thes 2:15 is in the Bible and I believe that because the bronze serpant and the Cheribum are in the Bible along with the Ark of the Covenant that God doesn't need to micro manage things so much that every statue that is made has to be dictated by him. The point of my bringing up the bronze serpant and the cheribum is that they add information to the first commandment (which you guys have split in to two) telling us that it is okay to have statues as long as we don't worship them as God, crediting them (the stone or bronze object) as the ultimate source of the good that comes about in our lives. The part of the commandment that says "thou shalt make no graven image" is clearly in the context of for the purpose of worshipping as God actually commands the making of other images in Ex 25 and Kings, after Ex 20 where he gave the command about images and having other God's before him. The bronze statue was even used in a religious context as it was gazed upon and in that gaze the Jews were cured of their ills. But it was destroyed when God read from the peoples hearts that they were worshipping it. I am quite comfortable in my heart of hearts that the statue I talked about in that garden of mine is not worshipped but only reminds me of his mother and how she brought the savior of the world in to the world. I see no more violation of the second commandment than the Israelites who first gazed upon the bronze serpant and were cured of their ills.

    Blessings
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    You articulated that very well. And while I completely support your RIGHT to have a statue of Mary in your yard, I don't agree with the equivocation of the Bronze serpent, or the Cherubim. And ONLY because it is not dictated, as such, in scripture.

    Sorry for the negative exchanges, of late.
     
  20. thessalonian

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    [QUOTE

    Sorry for the negative exchanges, of late. [/qb][/QUOTE]

    Ditto. No problem.

    Blessings
     

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