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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by preacherchris, Jun 12, 2004.
how can one say that he is right with God and be a member of the lodge.
1. He could be intoxicated
2. He could be on Crystal Meth
3. He could be a democrat ((maybe this goes with No. 1 and 2)
4. He could be a zombie
5. He could be delusional
All seriousness aside, masons are not believers, as they are idolators.
A person can say whatever they want, it does not make it so. When someone is walking in darkness they cannot see the light. They deceive themselves thinking they have a special enlightenment from the lodge, but do not see that they are in an apostate state.
I have many LDS friends and have yet to see a Mormon who did not think himself a fine Christian and NOT a cult member.
I have many Charismaniac friends and have yet to see a Pentecostal who did not think herself a find Christian and NOT a cult member.
A Lodge member is no different. They MAY be truly born again - I will leave that up to God - but they are entangled in a cultic religion.
So Dr. you think LDS can be truly born again and be an active LDS? Now many Baptist Churches have high leadership that are active Lodge members, does this mean that they would also accept applications from the LDS also?
I think that an Active Lodge member can be a Christian in spite of the connection to the cult of Masonic demon worship but any church that puts a Lodge member in power has destroyed the church foundation and is in more trouble than the Masonic Christian. At one point as a Christian I was part of the Church of Satan, but I was not in right relationship with the body of the Church or the headship of Christ, church that would have taken me into leadership while I was connected to this error would support the Church of Satan and connect this association to the foundation of the church I joined.
I think the only way that one can say they are right with God and be a member of the lodge is in the connection of Grace alone, from Christ alone. We have many things that we get into that look ok to our own reason. When we lack a systematic connection to the Holy Bible many very bad things can come to seem ‘OK’ even to the elect. Lodge membership seems to be a normal social choice with no obvert evil and many good works, they even encourage active member ship in your choice of religious organization (for some orders it is required). I think that the Christian soul should be warned in the admittance to the blue lodge (entry level) as you are asked to forsake the darkness and turn to the light, if you come as a Christian You are in effect asked to confess that Jesus Christ is Darkness and turn to a higher illumination. The mind game is that you’re getting to see a deeper view of the creator and a better understanding of Christ. As this path winds on you will die and be raised form the dead, drink the blood of the King and join the light of the ring. As you can see the gospel illumination is deep indeed and the confusion of the active Lodge member is so deep that it is hard to do more than pray for the action of the Holy Ghost in there life. But to put them in power positions in a Church is only a conformation of an error that will lead to destruction of the Lodge member and the Church that takes part in this deception.
I will not sit in judgment on the grace of God. Who knows if a person is regenerate AND still terribly confused about doctrine or polity?
I would say that 99% of the LDS I know would not by their own admission claim to be born again by faith alone.
And agree with your assessment of the Lodge. MAY be a few save (but truly mixed up folks) but I sure don't want them as leaders in MY church!
Just happened to peek in.
Amen! Dr. Griffin.
That is why I included my own error in judgment and association. I was at the point that the Holy Ghost was going to ship my saddle home but the salvation that was provided was a new creation from God and made of much more durable stuff than the mixed up wandering of this mans soul. The reverse is true also; you may have a clean slate and a wonderful looking life that is following the traditions of the Church and never have connected to the truth of your need of salvation or turned to God in true repentance having excepted Christ as Lord in your life. But we cannot judge correctly in this case and only pray and hope.
I know for a fact, the higher degree masons have to make an oath of denial of the Lord Jesus Christ. My grandfather was a mason, and when he was on his death bed I asked him about salvation, and he was so sure he was saved BUT feared Judgement. He knew he was not living a God-Honoring life, if he really was saved, and he was fearing a certain fearful-judgment. I think you are gotta be an evil person to be in the higher ranking masons, or also very naieve. I honestly dont think any God-Fearing Christian could be part of that cult.
The 'oath' starts in the blue lodge or first level, the cycle of initiation into the light of the divine architect progresses to a point that would make a bible informed Christian run in horror, but they do not ‘reject’ Christ in the Templar Order or the operation of the oath. They do reject the Holy Bible as the Word of God exclusively and much like the Muslims see Christ as a prophet of the divine architect from the white lodge. They keep three holy books in each lodge and see this as a reflection of the light of truth, one of the books is the Holy Bible, they tell the ‘Christian’ that the view they hold dear is a reflection of the light of truth and that to get past the reflection and into the light they must cast down the reflection and step into the real truth. But you will win no point to a lodge member by confronting them with a direct denial of Christ at any level, you need to prayerfully get them to define ‘Christ’ and show how that is not the Christ of the Bible. If they are not Christian the demons that run the Lodge may attack you in many ways (that is why you must pray). If they are Christian the demon hosted in the soul may also become very active even to the point of killing the host, once this process of deliverance is started it must be taken to the end prayerfully and with a lot of Holy Bible and charity. As I came out of Satanism the only thing that helped me was my Holy Bible foundation, I am sure that the demons that I had played host to would have ripped me to death if it was not for the Word of God. Remember the root of bitterness and rejection are what makes most go into ‘secret societies’ in the first place.
(I know for a fact, the higher degree masons have to make an oath of denial of the Lord Jesus Christ. My grandfather was a mason, and when he was on his death bed I asked him about salvation, and he was so sure he was saved BUT feared Judgement. He knew he was not living a God-Honoring life, if he really was saved, and he was fearing a certain fearful-judgment. I think you are gotta be an evil person to be in the higher ranking masons, or also very naieve. I honestly dont think any God-Fearing Christian could be part of that cult.)
I know for fact this is not True to be a Knights Templar which is a higher Degree in Freemasonry you have to Profess a Faist in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
More masonic double speak. "We are not a religious organization--but one must believe in a higher power and in certain degrees one must profess Jesus"---"We don't teach about salvation, but in the bestowing of the apron we talk about how one gets into the celestial lodge above, ie heaven.
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then to the freemason it is a cow.
Blue Lodge does not teach Salavtion and it is not a religious organization. Bestowing and Apron talks of the Truth that God can not have sin in Heaven. The Knights Templar is called the Christian Degrees by most. But than again that goes against everything you try to say about Christ not being mentioned in the Lodge.
(If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then to the freemason it is a cow.)
So are saying that it teachs about Christ but to someone Freemasons who are not Christian they do not see it. I would agree with that.
I would not say that freemasonry teaches about Jesus. I would say that they teach a corrupt view of the Christ of the Bible. I would say that no Christian needs anything that freemasonry has to add about Jesus. The Bible gives us all we need.
The point of my reply earlier is that masonry wants it both ways. They want to deny that freemasonry is a religious organization, because they know that would put them in conflict with the church, while at the same time putting forth their teachings and rituals as religious truth.
Only in the world of the mason can religious practice, ie prayers and religious teaching not be religious.
Such doublespeak does not excuse our own unchristian behavior in regards to the subject. Someone makes the claim that masons are required to take an oath to deny Jesus Christ, and then when someone says something to refute that, they're accused of doublespeak. Yet, the original poster is allowed to get off scott free with making rumor and gossip.
I'm not going to weigh in here on the topic of freemasonery. However, the quantity of violations of scriptural ban on rumor and gossip is staggering. We should be ashamed of ourselves!!! There is no scriptural exception clause to the spreading of rumor and gossip. If you want to discuss your opinion that freemasonery is anti-christian, feel free to do so, but refrain from unchristian behavior when doing so.
It makes me ashamed to be associated with the Christian community when I see unchristian behavior running rampant under the pretense of righteousness.
John I agree with you about spreading rumors in the Christian community. It is sad and unbibilical.
If you find that I have done this please let me know with what I have said. If you have not found this be careful of lumping me and others in with this person who has done this. I do not mind being admonished when found in error, but I do mind being lumped in with those who do not deal with the issue and then being chastised for what I am not doing. There is plenty of information (documented) to show the problems of freemasonry, without spreading rumors. A practice that I avoid like the plague.
No, Bro Tony, I wasn't referring to you as a specific. As almost a rule, threads on this subject get really ugly and unruly, often making KJVO threads look like fine dining.
They do tend to turn pretty quickly, It is really bad that you can not have a decussion on the issue without it getting out of hand. I have looked at both sides of the Issue. I find that most who seem to be anti-masonic have a misconception of it. All I ask is to look at both sides not just the nit side of the issue. I know pastors who have study Freemasonry and do not belong to Freemasonry but have found no problem with it.
No were have I ever been asked to denounce Christ or that Christ is equal to all the other false gods in the world. I have been thaught that YHWH is the God in the Ritual and that Christ is mentioned in the Rituals. Freemasonry asked for a belief in a Supreme Being for accountablity nothing else. Again all I ask is that both sides be looked at.
John & Jacob,
I am in total agreement with both of you as to the tendency of debates to turn ugly. I wish it were not so.
I know too of pastors who have look at freemasonry and have no problems with it. I and many others have studied it and have severe problems with it. As I have stated elsewhere, if a man wants to be involved in freemasonry, that is his choice. It is always my hope that he knows what he is getting into.
Nevertheless, popular opinion does not determine truth one way of the other. After much study I see no compadibility of freemasonry and Christianity. That others do not see it that way is the essence of debate.
Something I have always wanted to read completly is the Study done by the SBC on Freemaosnry. I have asked some Anti-Masonic Folks that say they have a copy if they could email it to me, But they never do I would like to read it thou. I have read what Gary Leazer has written in Funimentalism and Freemasonry and what Larry Kunk has written on his website. I have not spoken with Leazer but I have with Kunk. Basicly it seems that if a Christian looks at Freemasonry thru a Christian sence they will see the teaches of Christ and the God of the Bible which I do and with reason not blindly. And they say a Mormon will look into the Teachings of Freemasonry and see mormonism same as for the Muslem, Hindu and so own. At that point I disagree you as a muslem, Hindu and Mormon would have to change the deffintion of a view things for this to happen. As their religions do not agree with what some of Freemasonry says and the Christian religion does.