1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Masons/MorningStars

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Angie Miller, Dec 3, 2002.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tell me John, is there any ceremony that Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts go through that even comes close to this?
    No, but there are customs in other fraternities that probably make this look tame. Believe me, tuor, I'm not a fan of fraternities and clandestine and unusual rituals. But my distdain for them does not necessarily make these organizations anti-Christian. Non Christian, yes; anti-Christian, no.
     
  2. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, but there are customs in other fraternities that probably make this look tame.

    My question was based on yours and others remarks about how the Boy Scouts and others did the same thing.

    John,

    Do you believe that Masons take blood oaths?
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it Biblical that we be judged purely on our works?

    The masons focus on being doers of good works, but I don't get than they're salvation in any manner, since that itn't their focus.

    Again, I can parallel the other organizations I've listed, like scouts, aa, etc. They all focus on doing works, but aren't teaching salvation, and they don't try to.
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you believe that Masons take blood oaths? I don't plan on getting into a nitpicking session of the Masons. They don't teach salvation apart from Christ, which is the point I was trying to make.
     
  5. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually John, the strait 'no' was more than I thought I'd get out of you.

    You'd have to agree that at the least Masons dabble with the topic of salvation, which is nothing like the other organizations.

    If they do make blood oaths, then it is an organization that Jesus Christ warned us not to join.
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since I was curious myself, I popped over to a freemason website and got the follogin off ther faq:

    Do you have to take a Blood Oath?

    No. The penalties of the degrees in Modern Freemasonry are strictly symbolic. No one is expected, and it is strictly forbidden, to impose or bear these penalties. The symbolic penalties are strictly used to increase the dramatic flavor and hopefully reinforce the legendary flavor of the old world customs of Freemasonry.
     
  7. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    The penalties of the degrees in Modern Freemasonry are strictly symbolic.

    Symbolic blood oaths are still blood oaths. I didn't ask if anyone expected them to be enforced. Besides, if they actually were, do you actually believe they'd come out and say it?
     
  8. Angie Miller

    Angie Miller New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    I checked out a few sites also, I am still not sure quite what to think of them. But I do know it is something I feel the need to stay away from.
    Thanks for all your posts!
    Love in Christ Angie [​IMG]
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Besides, if [blood oaths actually were enforced], do you actually believe they'd come out and say it?

    While Modern Freemasonery does involve customs that are supposed to be kept secret, Masons are forbidden from being deceptive about their practices. Lying is considered "unmasonic".

    Still, I agree with you that blood oaths are warned against biblically. As to whether or not there are some Masoninic oaths that are blood oaths, since I have only my opinion to base it on, I'm comfortable with accepting their word that the oaths are not blood oaths, but strict ceremonialism.

    That said, I reiterate that my problem with the Masons or any fraternity is that of keeping secrets. I don't think that's a good postition for CHristians to put themselves into, especially if they have a spouse. But if a Christian can resolve that, then more power to them. I only know that I'd have a problem with it, and I'd generally not recommend a fraternity to a Christian man.
     
  10. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    6
    The name of Jesus Christ is removed from masonic hymns. They all share a common belief in the great architect, Druids in Australia are welcome to have Mother Nature as their God.

    Yes they have religious teachings. The supposed secret name of God revealed after the third degree is a religious teaching.

    Druids are definatley into satanism as are members of the Spiritualist church who read tarot cards and practice witchcraft. Christian Freemasons accept these people as there elders and overseers. refering to them as "Worshipfull Master" if they are the grand master or of a high degree. Ther is no way that can ever be reconciled to biblical teaching on witchcraft.

    If you think it is o.k to be in the lodge and a christian you are kidding yourself. read the research on the lodge and you will soon see that it is not all that it appears. That is why so many have renounced it.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The name of Jesus Christ is removed from masonic hymns.
    They're not "removed", since references to Jesus were never there in the first place.

    They all share a common belief in the great architect, Druids in Australia are welcome to have Mother Nature as their God.
    So are druids who join the Boy Scouts or Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Yes they have religious teachings.
    So do the Boy scouts. SO does Alcoholics Anonymous.

    The supposed secret name of God revealed after the third degree is a religious teaching.
    And it's been posted here, so it;s not much of a secret.

    Druids are definatley into satanism as are members of the Spiritualist church who read tarot cards and practice witchcraft.
    So?

    Christian Freemasons accept these people as there elders and overseers
    As would someone in Boy Scouts accept them as scoutmasters and leaders, and would AA accept them as sponsors.

    refering to them as "Worshipfull Master"
    Ther term "worshipful" has no religious overtone here. Freemasonery originated in what is now part of the Great Britain. The term "worshipful" is an old english term meaning respectable and worthy. The Mayor of London, for example, is referred to as "The Right Worshipful Lord Mayor of London".

    There is no way that can ever be reconciled to biblical teaching on witchcraft.
    Since it has nothing to do with witchcraft, there is nothing to reconcile.

    If you think it is o.k to be in the lodge and a christian you are kidding yourself. read the research on the lodge and you will soon see that it is not all that it appears. That is why so many have renounced it.
    The SBC, my affiliation, has researched it and announced that they do not feel membership as a freemason does not necessarily conflict with scriptural teachings, and that men who are freemasons are also allowed to be members of the SBC. The SBC's view is adequate for me.

    [ December 06, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  12. Multimom

    Multimom New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    JohnV:

    Just because the SBC didn't take a stand on this one doesn't mean it doesn't need to be taken.

    I would encourage you to go to the website for
    The Christian Research Institute and read what they have to say about freemasonry.

    It might give you a mild change of opinion.
     
  13. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm familiar with the site. The Christian Research Institute passes itself off as an educational source, which it is not. It is a ministry. The site is simply one that espouses the opinions of those who run the site. Material found on the site are no more or less valuable that the material found on this site. While the site is good reading, I would never encourage anyone to use the site as a difinitive doctrinal source.
     
  14. Angie Miller

    Angie Miller New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2002
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pardon me the women are called evening stars, and then there are Job's daughters and the younger ones are another name that has escaped me at the moment, of course! :rolleyes:
    This is weird, as I said the topic just came up and I found out today that a friend of mines Husband has now become a Mason. I don't know really what to say about it. I also talked to a friend today who's Dad and Grandfather have been in for many years and she said it was a pretty normal kind of club.
    I did some looking around on the net but most of the sites I found were people defending them not just the facts.So I guess I will keep a close eye on my friends and see what's up with it if anything.
    By the way I rather enjoy CRI and Hank. :D
    Love in Christ Angie
     
  15. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    6
    Go into a masonic lodge, and while in lodge tell a muslim that if he does not accept Jesus Christ as his Savior he will go to hell. You will be kicked out immediantly. Openly Witnessing Jesus Christ In Lodge is not permitted, which violates the Christians call to tell the world that He lives.

    The Bible says to have nothing whatsoever to do with witchcraft. Having a druid or a Spritualist Warlock in Authority over you violates this. Same as in Scouts.

    The Salvation Army also researched Freemasonry and stated that its membership must choose. Many Salvationists left. Few churches have the guts to stand up for their beliefs if it means they may lose members.

    Lets consider some of the Masons teaching and why it is wrong.

    1. Praying to God while ignoring his Son Jesus Christ = Blasphemy. John 5:23

    2. Masonry states that all non-members are in darkness. = Jesus Christ is the light of the world, no christian is ever in darkness.

    3. Masonry requires Christian members to take an oath. = This defies Matt 5:33-37 and James 5:12. Think carefully about any organisation which encourages you to openly defy the New Testament.

    4. There is no account in the bible of finding a Vault, Altar top, scroll in the rebuilding of the temple as the lodge teach. Either is there any mention in the bible of a Hiram Abiff, Moses was not a master Mason either, as taught by the lodge.

    5. No christian can accept the quran or the book of mormon or any other writing other than the bible to be placed on an altar and pronounced Holy. = Further Blasphemy.

    Satan Worship,

    This is what concerns me the most about the lodge. Refering to a book called "Sin in the Camp" by James Wilson, Here is an exerpt from a statement by Albert Pike, a 33rd degree mason, creator of the supreme rite

    "To you Soverign Inspector General we say this, and you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees; the Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay, the God of Christians, bother to spread false and harmful statements about him. Yes, Lucifer is God.
     
  16. DinkyDoo

    DinkyDoo New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    In a nutshell.......
    I think that any organization that does NOT have the bible as its final authority but has its laws and rules as its final authority is not a group I would want to belong to.
    There are secret handshakes in the masons. Before ANYTHING being a masonic brother comes FIRST before anything else. IF a judge is a mason and the defendant is a manson and the judge knows it. HE would HAVE to judge according the the masonic laws NOT the laws of this country and NOT the laws of God first.
    DD
     
  17. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    IF a judge is a mason and the defendant is a manson and the judge knows it. HE would HAVE to judge according the the masonic laws NOT the laws of this country and NOT the laws of God first.
    That's not only a big hypothetical, but a complete and utter fallacy. Doing so would be a legal violation and would be considered unmasonic. BTW - if you're a Christian judge, you're supposed to make decisions based on the laws of the state, not the laws of God. If a Christian does this, he's doing the same thing you're accusing a mason judge of doing.

    ...an exerpt from a statement by Albert Pike, a 33rd degree mason, creator of the supreme rite
    I've heard this before. These quotations were fabricated and published by staunch anti-Masonists. Albert Pike never wrote this.

    Masonry requires Christian members to take an oath We're not barred from taking oaths. But we are warned against taking blood oaths. There's been concern that Masons require blood oaths. These oaths don't appear to be biblical blood oaths, but ceremonial oaths. If they were blood oaths, I'd be inclined to agree.

    The Bible says to have nothing whatsoever to do with witchcraft. Having a druid or a Spritualist Warlock in Authority over you violates this. Same as in Scouts.
    You make it sound like Mason althuroties are witches. That is misleading. I've already covered this earlier. By your reckoning, if we go to court and the judge is Jewish or Muslim, we'd be violating scripture.

    Go into a masonic lodge, and while in lodge tell a muslim that if he does not accept Jesus Christ as his Savior he will go to hell. You will be kicked out immediantly.
    Yes. You'll be kicked out of a boy scout meeting if you do the same. You'll be kicked out of AA if you do the same. You'll be kicked out of court if you do the same. You'll probably get kicked out of Sears and 7-11 if you do the same.

    There are secret handshakes in the masons. I'm not sure what the conflict is. It's not so that two member can identify themselves, since membership in the organization is not supposed to be kept secret (many masons wear tie tacks, rings, or lapel pins with the logo on it. Although, there are many "photos" showing George Burch, D James Kennedy, Billy Grahem, and even Jerry Falwell exchenging "secret handshakes", which doesn't lend much credence to them.

    [ December 09, 2002, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  18. Multimom

    Multimom New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    JohnV:

    I wonder would you to post the "rituals" of the Masonic Funeral and remember to include the draping of the Holy Scripture in a black cloth (siginfying the concealing of the truth.)

    If you post these, and there shouldn't be any problem since masonic funerals are open to the public, I think we will see some real truth about the lodge in this one ritual and for me, the organization is demonic just a hot tip, my kids aren't in scouting either.

    The pentigramic star is widely known as a Satanic symbol and is this not the main emblem of the Masonic Lodge???

    Some of the other organizations associated are

    Eastern Star
    Rainbow Girls etc.

    I would avoid this just as I would associating with a group that openly practices Wiccan.

    Sorry that's the way God led me when I studied it (apart from the Christian Research Institute). I did my study nearly 15 years ago.

    I'll see what other info I can uncover and post it here.
     
  19. Multimom

    Multimom New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's what a Pastor and former Grand Lodge Chaplain has to say.

    A Grand Chaplain Speaks Out
    by Harmon R. Taylor
    GRAND LODGE FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK GRAND CHAPLAIN 1983-1984 REV. HARMON R. TAYLOR

    Dear Servant of God, Knowing that you desire to serve the Lord with all your heart, I share this letter with you. Perhaps you have been struggling with the same situation. On November 22nd, I sent the facts contained in this letter to all Masonic bodies of which I am a member. I invite you to prayerfully read it. It will explain why I as a Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of the State of New York am requesting a demit from all bodies of the Masonic fraternity. There is much more that I could share. I would be happy to share more if it will help you in the Lord's service.

    Many have asked me if Freemasonry is a religion. I have always responded "No". Others have told me that it is a religion. Study has revealed the fact that learned writers in the fraternity say MASONRY IS A RELIGION. The Lord Jesus Christ said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word is established" (Matthew 18:16). In order to be brief, I will quote only four Masonic authorities that masonry is a religion.

    Albert Mackey, one of the most well known Masonic authorities, wrote in A LEXICON OF FREEMASONRY (Pg. 402): "The religion, then, masonry, is pure theism...".

    Albert Pike, the most important of all American Masonic authorities wrote in MORALS AND DOGMA (Pg. 213-214): "Every Masonic lodge is a temple of religion, and its teachings are instructions in religion...this is true religion revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which masonry has taught for many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time endures."

    J.S.M. Ward, a Masonic authority who has written several important books on masonry, wrote in his book FREEMASONRY: ITS AIMS & IDEALS (Pg.185): "I consider freemasonry is a significantly organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion." Ward continues on page 187, "Freemasonry...taught that each man can by himself, work out his own conception of god and thereby achieve salvation." It holds that there are many paths that lead to the throne of the all-loving father which all start from a common source. Freemasonry believes, according to Ward, "that though these paths appear to branch off in various directions, yet they all reach the same ultimate goal, and that to some men, one path is better and to other, another."

    "Frank C. Higgins, a high mason, wrote in ANCIENT FREE MASONRY (Pg.10), "It is true that Freemasonry is the parent of all religion."

    These Masonic witnesses all agree in their doctrine that masonry is, indeed, a religion. It is necessary now to ascertain whether masonry is a true religion or a false religion. In an article entitled, "HOW TO RECOGNIZE A FALSE RELIGION" (Faith for the Family Nov/Dec 1974), a prominent Christian leader wrote: "All false religions, have some things in common. Here are three simple tests by which any religion should be judged:

    FIRST: What is its attitude toward the Bible?

    SECOND: Any religious teaching should be tested by this question; What is its attitude toward Jesus Christ?

    THIRD: In judging a religious system, we should ask, What is its attitude toward the blood of Jesus Christ!"

    According to these three tests, masonry is a false religion manifesting a satanic attitude toward the Bible, the Deity of Jesus Christ, and the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. In order to establish this charge, keep in mind the Word our Lord Jesus Christ who said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established." Please consider now the testimony of Masonic authorities which reveal Masonry's satanic attitude toward the Bible, the Deity of Jesus Christ and the vicarious atonement for the sins of mankind by the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross.

    Joseph Ford Newton, a famous authority and writer, in an article entitled "The Bible and Masonry" wrote "The bible so rich in symbolism is itself a symbol...thus, by the very honor which masonry pays the Bible, it teaches us to revere every book of faith in which men find help for today and hope for tomorrow, joining hands with the man of Islam as he takes his oath on the Koran, with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God upon the book that he loves best."

    Albert Pike, in Morals & Dogma, wrote (Pg.718) "Masonry propagates no creed except it's own most simple sublime one; that universal religion, taught by nature and reason."

    One who is truly born-again can see from the above statement that masonry totally rejects the doctrine of an infallible, God-breathed, inerrant Bible.

    According to the Second Test, masonry is a false religion because it totally rejects the crucial doctrine of the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    J.D. Buck, M.D., another Masonic writer of importance, in his book Symbolism of Mystic Masonry wrote (Pg.57) "In the early Church as in the secret doctrine, there was not one Christ for the world but a potential Christ in every man. Theologians first made a fetish of the impersonal, Omnipresent divinity; and then tore the Christos from the hearts of all humanity in order to Deify Jesus; that they might have a God-Man particularly their own."

    One would have to look far and wide in the writings of false teachers to find statements more blasphemous than this about the person of Jesus Christ, my Lord.

    According to the Third Test, masonry is a false religion because masonry dogmatically rejects the doctrine of salvation from the penalty of sin by faith in the vicarious atonement of Christ's shed blood on the cross.

    Thomas Milton Steward, another Masonic author, in his book Symbolic Teaching on Masonry and Its Message, to support his doctrine quoted favorable an apostate Episcopal minister who wrote (Pg.177), "Did Jesus count Himself, conceive of Himself as a proprietary sacrifice and of His work as an expiation? The only answer possible is, clearly, He did not...He does not call Himself the world's priest, or the world's victim."

    Salvation by Faith in the vicarious atonement are not "ignorant perversions of the original doctrines" as masonry teaches, but they are vital ingredients of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto Salvation to everyone who believes. THEREFORE, masonry fails all three tests. It manifests a satanic attitude toward the Bible, the Deity of Christ, and the vicarious atonement. In addition to failing these tests, there is much more proof that masonry is a false religion.

    For instance, Henry C. Clausen, 33 decree, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council 33 Decree mother council of the world, in the NEW AGE, November, 1970, (Pg.4) wrote regarding masonry, "It is dedicated to bringing about the Fatherhood of God, the Brotherhood of Man, and making better men in a better world."

    The doctrine of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man is not found in the Bible. It is a doctrine taught consistently by apostates. Also, the Bible makes it crystal clear that no organization, masonry included, can make better men. Only God can make better men!

    According to a Masonic creed, found in the Masonic Bible, masonry teaches that "character determines destiny."

    The teaching that character determines destiny is a false doctrine of the Arch Deceiver of Souls. The Bible says, "There is none that doeth good," and "For by Grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

    Masonry is anti-Christian in its teachings. For example, J.M. Ward in FREEMASONRY - ITS AIMS AND IDEALS wrote (Pg.187), "I boldly aver that freemasonry is a religion, yet it no way conflicts with any other religion, unless that religion holds that no one outside its portals can be saved." Ward, in his statement, reveals the fact that masonry has no conflict with any apostate religion on the face of the earth, but he also reveals that masonry is in conflict with Christianity. The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we MUST be save" (Acts 4:12). Jesus said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (Jn. 14:6). The Bible is plainly teaching that there is only one way to heaven and the is Christ.

    A prominent college president said of masonry, "It is a luciferian religion. We are fully aware of its diabolical origin and purpose. I believe that any born-again Christian, when the facts from the lips of Masonic writers themselves are presented showing that masonry is a religion and is the worship of Satan, will immediately withdraw." To this I must add my hearty agreement!

    The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the only True and Living God, has clearly commanded Christian, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, and swear not at all, and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

    Charles Finney, the famed evangelist who God used to bring a revival in America in the 1830's, in his book, FREEMASONRY wrote (Pg.115), "Surely, if masons really understood what Masonry is, as it is delineated in these books, no Christian Mason would think himself to remain at liberty to remain another day a member of the fraternity. It is as plain as possible that a man knowing what it is, and embracing it in his heart, cannot be a Christian man. To say he can is to belie the very nature of Christianity."

    For me, the signs of the time compared with prophetic Scripture, make it apparent that we are living in the last days prior to the Rapture of the Church. Satan is hard at work trying to hinder believers' spiritual growth, as well as trying to keep the unsaved from entering God's Family. Freemasonry, I have come to believe, is one of Satan's master deceptions. Many ministers, elders, deacons, trustees, and Sunday School teachers belong to this cult. Today, my membership ends! Today, a new ministry begins. There is a tremendous need to scrutinize the cultic nature of Freemasonry in view of the massive infiltration of its effects on the working body of the Church. It should be exposed to the True Light - Jesus Christ!

    Love in Christ, Harmon R. Taylor mason3.htm
    FOR INFORMATION CONTACT REV. HARMON R. TAYLOR BOX 12 NEWTONVILLE, NY 12128
    OR
    FREE THE MASONS MINISTRIES P.O. BOX 1077 ISSAQUAH, WA 98027

    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/
     
  20. Multimom

    Multimom New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's what Dwight L. Moody had to say

    Dwight L. Moody Speaks Out

    Dwight L. Moody said, "I do not see how any Christian, most of all a Christian minister, can go into these secret lodges with unbelievers. They say they can have more influence for good: but I say they can have more influence for good by staying out of them, and reproving their evil deeds. Abraham had more influence for good in Sodom than Lot had."

    For this, D. L. Moody was challenged, "If you talk this way, you will drive all the members of secret societies out of your meetings and out of our churches."

    To this the bold pastor proclaimed, "But what if I did? Better men will take their places. Give them the truth anyway, and if they would rather leave their churches than their lodges, the sooner they get out of the churches, the better. I would rather have ten members who are separated from the world than a thousand such members. Better one with God than a thousand without Him."
     
Loading...