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Matt Shepard v Jesse Dirkhising

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    Following your reasoning, men who abuse young girls are "motivated by heterosexual underpinnings"?... no, it's called pedophilia and has nothing to do with hetero or homosexual issues.

    Look, it's child abuse and wrong for any adult to abuse any children.

    Dr Bob has shown us that he is in the camp that says... you get what you deserve as a sinner... and if you're gay, I'll call you a sexual whore to boot.

    I have no problem with Dr. Bob saying "you get what you deserve as a sinner", it's the last part that is unsettling... coming from a person in his station in life. :(
    </font>[/QUOTE]no you are wrong, i believe dr bob is showing the difference in how many are bombarded from the media, and the implication is made that homosexuals are innocent in all respects and that they are considered martyrd to become some sort of little angel in heaven. i believe dr bob is showing that shepard, though wrongly killed was a sinner and even though he being a promiscuous sodomite was in fact a sinner with a horrid abominable practice.
     
  2. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    "Sodomite" and "Whore" are biblical words and are accurate discription of this person. Why do you want to make sin sound ok, by using the nice words for perversion. Thnks Dr. Bob for your courage.
     
  3. Xingyi Warrior

    Xingyi Warrior New Member

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    So what is your reasoning? Your kind of logic is used to justify the exposure of openly homosexual individuals to young boys which I contend is dangerous using the same reasoning as why I shouldn't be placed in charge of a high school girls gym class - too much temptation. I'm sorry post-it, but I strongly disagree with your assertion that pedophilia and homosexuality are different. Both are forms of deviancy and condemned by traditional Judeo-Christian theology. It is significant that a statistically higher proportion of males not only abuse children but abuse male children. Since there are statistical weights recognized in relation to the number of males vs. females who are the victims of sexaul abuse with the skew occuring toward the male group then the inference can be made that the behaviors motivating the acts are unique and as such male and female sexual abuse can be classified differently. If your assertions that pedophilia is a homogenous phenomenon then one should hypothesize that there would be no significantly different statistical weighting skewed toward either group. In other words the smapling numbers of abuse victims with respect to sex would be equally weighted or a classic bell curve. But that is not the case as studies have shown that, as previously stated, it appears more males are the vitims of sexual abuse and with males being the abuser.

    Websters dictionary defines homosexuality as:

    Main Entry: 1ho·mo·sex·u·al
    Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'sek-sh(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1892
    1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
    2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
    - ho·mo·sex·u·al·ly adverb


    By definition then sexual abuse by a person of the same sex does indeed fit the description of someone who is classified as a homosexual.

    In comparison recent studies suggest that males tend to be more predisposed to adhering to same sex attraction, or the purest(no irony intended)definition of what constitutes a homosexual as opposed to females who are much more likely to drift back and forth between hetero and homo relationships.

    So in lieu of these findings I propose that a relationship does exist between a person's sexual orientation and a predisposition to abuse male children and that relationship is:

    1. Most sexual abuse is committed by male perpetrators, more victims of sexual abuse are male, and of this group the greatest number are abused by male adults.

    2. Since most sexual abuse occuring involves same sex encounters these encounters therefore can be classified as homosexual owing to the fact that the sheer discrepancy in the weights as previously noted makes them unique.

    Of course more research needs to be done to clarify grey areas but your assertion that no relationship exists between a person's sexual orientation and predisposition toward pedophilia lacks any support owing to the statistical evidence of previous studies in human sexual deviancy.
    Aside from science, homosexuality is clearly condemned by scripture and if you are pro-gay then you are anti-Christ just as if you are pro any sin you would be classified as the same. The currentt contention over this issue stems from the fact that it is the foremost counter-christian behavior that churches are being politically pressured to accept.
     
  4. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    I'm not sure your exact meaning here if this applies to the normal man or what. But I don't think the normal man would ever be tempted to have sex with a "known" high school girl. If I were single and was presented with this job, just knowing a girl was under age kills it for me. Further, I think most men would agree with me on that perspective. Unless, they were pedophiles. Then they would be tempted to have sex.

    The same dictionary you quote later agrees with me on this fact (not assertion).

    Sorry, bad reasoning on your part here. I agree that most men do the abusing and will also agree that most abuse is on young males.
    But those premises don't support that there is any greater number of homosexual abusers of children than heterosexual abusers of the easiest child to abuse... which are young males. This type of sex is more about power over another, than anything else.

    Not if the higher number (male victim) in this case was an easier target or at a higher age (13-17) would consent easier due to the different sexual attributes of boys over girls.

    I'm sorry, I didn't read the words (sex with minors) anywhere in that definition.

    I have no disagreement with you here.
    I also agree with this statement. Any sex between any age males are classified as homosexual as well as any sex between any male/female is heterosexual. But Abusers of female children can't be traced back to the fact they are heterosexual just as male only pedophiles ain't caused by them being homosexual.


    I'm not sure how pro-gay equals pro-sin. Does pro-acceptance of the fact we all sin, mean we are pro-sin, thus anti-Christ?
     
  5. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    I'm not sure your exact meaning here if this applies to the normal man or what. But I don't think the normal man would ever be tempted to have sex with a "known" high school girl. If I were single and was presented with this job, just knowing a girl was under age kills it for me. Further, I think most men would agree with me on that perspective. Unless, they were pedophiles. Then they would be tempted to have sex.

    The same dictionary you quote later agrees with me on this fact (not assertion).

    Sorry, bad reasoning on your part here. I agree that most men do the abusing and will also agree that most abuse is on young males.
    But those premises don't support that there is any greater number of homosexual abusers of children than heterosexual abusers of the easiest child to abuse... which are young males. This type of sex is more about power over another, than anything else.

    Not if the higher number (male victim) in this case was an easier target or at a higher age (13-17) would consent easier due to the different sexual attributes of boys over girls.

    I'm sorry, I didn't read the words (sex with minors) anywhere in that definition.

    I have no disagreement with you here.
    I also agree with this statement. Any sex between any age males are classified as homosexual as well as any sex between any male/female is heterosexual. But Abusers of female children can't be traced back to the fact they are heterosexual just as male only pedophiles ain't caused by them being homosexual.


    I'm not sure how pro-gay equals pro-sin. Does pro-acceptance of the fact we all sin, mean we are pro-sin, thus anti-Christ?
    </font>[/QUOTE]pro gay does equal sin &gt;

    and pro gay does equal pro sin

    those who think they are defending poor homosexuals from mean ole Christians are condoning and affirming and accepting it as a good lifestyle or worst. if you have that position you may want to ask the moderator if you should even be posting here.
    you do not do any homosexual any favor by placing their exceedingly sinful lifestyle as any less then the abomination it is. why not stop this dishonor right now.
     
  6. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    i also wanted to add this verse &gt;&gt;&gt;Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
     
  7. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Hopefully, we don't do anyone the "favor" of placing a sinful lifestle as any less than the abomination it is - this includes things such as not giving to the church, speeding in a car, not showing love to the "least of these," and many, many other commandments of God. Homosexuality is wrong, but so are all of these other things. Those who killed Matthew Shephard committed an abomination. Those who will fail to show love to his family are also committing an abomination. All sin is an abomination to God - it doesn't matter what kind of sin it is.
     
  8. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    Hopefully, we don't do anyone the "favor" of placing a sinful lifestle as any less than the abomination it is - this includes things such as not giving to the church, speeding in a car, not showing love to the "least of these," and many, many other commandments of God. Homosexuality is wrong, but so are all of these other things. Those who killed Matthew Shephard committed an abomination. Those who will fail to show love to his family are also committing an abomination. All sin is an abomination to God - it doesn't matter what kind of sin it is. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]the problem with your rancor is that you see homosexuality such as not giving to the church or speeding in a car, and most Christians would see it as serious as murder
     
  9. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    The problem is that people categorize sins, and take an un-Biblical view by saying that not all sins are abominations. All sin is missing the mark of holiness. Not giving to the church is a sin. Speeding (which is disobedience to the law of the land) is also a sin. Homosexuality is a sin.
     
  10. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    The problem is that people categorize sins, and take an un-Biblical view by saying that not all sins are abominations. All sin is missing the mark of holiness. Not giving to the church is a sin. Speeding (which is disobedience to the law of the land) is also a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]somehow i think you still are making light of this issue.
     
  11. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    So you disagree that all sins are equal in the eyes of God (except blaspheming of the Spirit)?
     
  12. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    So you disagree that all sins are equal in the eyes of God (except blaspheming of the Spirit)? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]i believe any sin will send a person to hell even if it is a small sin or great sin, i do not believe they are equal in the eyes of God, do you have scripture that says such? in fact it seems in romans that the condition of homosexuality leads to being reprobates a very serious if not hopless condition.
    Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
     
  13. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    Pro-gay and pro-sinner is saying you accept that all people are sinners and worthy of the gift from Jesus.

    You seem to be in a private club that doesn't sin.

    To accept a sinner is not accepting the sin. To love the sinner and hate the sin is what Jesus asks us to do. You seem to be saying to hate the sinner and hate the sin. Pretty much what Dr. Bob has done toward Matt Shepard with his hateful claim that he is a sexual whore.
    That doesn't show love for the sinner, rather condemnation. Shepard might have lived a life of sin, but no more than you or I.

    This reminds me of the Biblical story of when a whore was about to be stoned to death and Jesus said "Let you who is without sin cast the first stone and a stone came flying from someone in the crowd and hit the whore right between the eyes and killed her. Jesus shouted into the crowd. Mom was that you?" (ok that was a Catholic version of the story but still applies to this issue)

    Jesus didn't tell this woman she must stop sinning or she would perish, he simply instructed her to go and sin no more. It is a guideline not a mandate, she could have gone on and continued to sin and Jesus would have continued to forgiven her... 7x7x7x7x7x7x...


    No more than the exceedingly gossipy lifestyle of men and women we have in every Church.

    It is clear from well formed arguments that homosexuality is a sin... to most of us, but it may not be classified as a sin to other people. Just like putting on make-up is a sin to some and to others it is not. Covered head, boasting, coveting other's goods etc. All sins that are defined by the Holy Spirit in a person's heart, not on this board, or by interpretation by church leadership that have made massive mistakes in the past... need we re-visit flat earth?
     
  14. ByGrace

    ByGrace New Member

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    Sounds like you should join the "Rev" Phelps. Do you really think our Lord would be pleased with your language and your lack of sensitivity and compassion?

    Blessings,
    Grace
     
  15. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    ByGrace I will agree, Shepherd was a sodomite whore, simple as that.

    Too many people here, in the name of love, are more concerned with what our politically correct society says than what God says. I will refrain from posting Romans chapter 1, as it has already been posted. Sodomy leads to reprobation which leads one to turn completely away from God with no desire to ever be saved. These sodomite reprobates even end up approving of these wicked things that they know are not only against God but against nature.

    Those of you here who want to buddy up to the sodomite crowd with the thought that you will win them over are sorely deceived. The people of God need to boldly proclaim what God says about this wicked lifestyle. Only as these sodomites are exposed to the truth can there be any hope that they will ever come to the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.
     
  16. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    You sound like you're in conflict with...
     
  17. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    I think that Jesus makes it clear in Matthew 5 that the sins that we would consider worse are seen as the same in the eyes of God - for example, comparing adultery and lust, and murder and hatred. James 2:10 also shows that even the smallest of what we would consider as sin is the same as committing every single sin.
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    This is a gambit used regularly to minimize the vile reprobation of sodomy/homosexuality by linking in to speeding et al

    Sin is sin. It IS all sin. But there are degrees of heinousness and abomination to some sins in the eyes of God and society.

    My kid steals a cookie? That's sin.
    Some sexual predator preys on my kid? That's a sin.

    You tell me they are all the same.
     
  19. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    Society, YES God, NO
    To God ANY sin is sin and it brings death.

    Society gets to decide which wrong deserves what type of punishment... or no punishment at all.

    Reference for this view is found in Romans 4 and
    James 2: 9. But you are breaking this law of our Lord's when you favor the rich and fawn over them; it is sin.
    10. And the person who keeps every law of God, but makes one little slip, is just as guilty as the person who has broken every law there is.
     
  20. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    To God - yeah, they are all the same. In our eyes, they are different, but not in God's.
     
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