Matthew 19--9

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by preacherman3, Dec 25, 2003.

  1. preacherman3

    preacherman3
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    I know that God would that no one divorce,but if they do and not for adultery ,and remarry are they living in adultery? this is the question that was ask of me.I would like to read your thoughts on this.
    preacherman3
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    Good question. IF they divorce for "pornea" (sexual sin) then they are free to remarry. The same clause applies to both parts of the command of Jesus (except for fornication).

    If they divorce for any other reason and then remarry, they are committing adultery. No other way of looking at that.
     
  3. preacherman3

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    Dr. Bob,
    Your answer brings up another question. I
    know people who really love God and try to live a good life so other people can see Jesus in them,but one or both have been divorced, it is hard for me to beleive that God is not blessing them by what I see in their life's. If they are living in adultery then how can God bless,for He will not bless over sin.
    preacherman3
     
  4. David Mark

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    I do not know the answer.

    But if God ever remembers a man's sin, then it must not be forgiven him. It's sort of like, there is a situation where God says: I am not going to allow you to do this because you have done something wrong in the past and I will in no way ever forgive you (of breaking one of my laws) of that no matter how much you ask me to. It seems to make the Cross of no effect and seems to deny God's power to regenerate a soul at any point in their walk of faith. Just because some might abuse forgiveness doesn't mean that all abuse forgiveness.

    But if God does forget (as far as the East is from the West) the sins (of any man) that he forgives, Why would he then remember them again? Only an accuser would do such a thing.

    I am not trying to be like one who thinks: Let us sin that grace may abound. I am fully aware of how much God hates those who think and teach such things. But somewhere with some sinners who ask, he must actually forgive and cleanse. Let us not sin at all!

    Forbidding any man to marry under any circumstance is a scary thought to me and I just cannot go there in my mind. It seems far worse than one individual making a private, even big mistake before his creator then having godly sorrow about it and then having hope.

    The mere miracle in finding a godly woman who likes me at all would be a total miracle. I could not count myself out of marriage because I might be divorced.

    It appears (to me) that a man breaks a law of God, if he divorces his wife for reasons other than adultery. I understand that law and it is a very serious and important law. It makes much sense to me. Nevertheless, to teach a law and elude that breaking that law could never be forgiven sounds one sided to me.

    It appears (to me) that a man breaks an even greater law if he ever fails once to love his neighbor, his brethren or his enemy, but that law seems more easily forgivable than divorce. It seems so forgivable that if I fail in that, I can be forgiven and have a chance to try again to love others. It doesn't add up to me.

    Nevertheless, I still do not know the answer. I just speak as one who wrestles greatly with this subject and tries to speak honestly.

    Sigh,

    Dave
     
  5. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    Preacherman:

    Remember that Jesus was teaching a new standard on both divorce and adultery. Jesus never said that it was permitted to divorce on the grounds of adultery. What he said was, “But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” (Matt 5:32) If his wife had already committed adultery then he could not cause her to commit this sin because she had already. Jesus repeats this in Matt 19:9 where he said, “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” In Mark 10:11-12 Jesus is even more specific when he says, “And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” Regardless of the cause, divorce and remarriage result in adultery.

    Nowhere did Jesus say that divorce was permitted, in fact he said the opposite in Matthew 19 and Mark 10. Even if they divorce because of sexual sin on their spouses part Jesus never says that they are free to remarry. Jesus clearly taught that if they divorce for any reason and remarry then they are committing adultery. They are breaking the vows they made to God and each other and it is a sin.

    But this does not answer your question of how God can bless these people living in sin. To answer this I think you need to go to I Corinthians chapter 7. Here is what I feel is the doctrinal passage on marriage. Verses 10 and 11 again repeat this teaching that divorce is never permitted. The only exception and I believe the only Biblical allowance for divorce comes in verse 15 where an unbeliever abandons the believing spouse. The Bible says, “A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.” If they are not under bondage in such cases then they are free, and I would say that if they are free then they are truly free and are therefore free to remarry.

    OK, that still does not address your question. You asked, “If they are living in adultery then how can God bless, for He will not bless over sin?” Remember that Jesus taught a new standard when it came to adultery as well. In Matthew 5, just two verses before he addresses divorce Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” (Matt 5:27-28) Yes, adultery is a sin, but we have all committed it (in our hearts if not in our bodies). Yes these divorced people have sinned, but Jesus brings forgiveness. (I John 1:9)

    I know this has gotten long (what do you expect in a forum populated by preachers) put I guess the key to my belief on the matter is this: Was the divorce a sin? Yes? Did they commit adultery when they engaged in sexual activity with another after vowing to keep themselves to their first spouse? Yes. But once they have entered into a second marriage relationship and taken those same vows with another do they continue to live in sin? My answer would be no.
     
  6. Charles Meadows

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    This is a good question - and one to which there is not likely a SIMPLE answer.

    Remember that this verse ( Mt 19:9) is part of an encounter with the Pharisees who were "tempting" Him. They were probably trying to get Him to take a side in the Hillel versus Shammai debate (an argument about what constituted, by the law, grounds for divorce).

    Jesus response is brilliant! He is not just saying that we must remain in marriage unless the spouse is unfaithful - He is saying in essence that marriage is a permanent committment. Notice that in Luke 16:18 there is no "but for fornication". In Mt 19:6 He says, "What therefore God hath joined, let no man put asunder."

    The point is that we should look at a divorce as "OK under certain circumstances" - it's never "OK"! In an Christian marriage both partners should keep their committment foremost in their minds! If one partner is "unfaithful" then he/she seemingly has NO committment and thus there is no unity. Two Christians who keep Christ preeminent should NEVER have reason to divorce. Consider the OT imagery of the unfaithful Israel (Isaiah, Hosea)!

    Now back to our real and not so great world!

    If a member of a marriage breaks the vow (adultery) and has no desire to remain then this is NOT a union between 2 believers; maybe one believer and one who perhaps never was?

    If a member falls in sin (adultery) but is truly sorry and is earnest in his/her desire to continue marriage should there be a "biblically sanctioned" divorce? In my opinion Jesus' answer would be definitely, "NO". He's likely say to forgive and continue in marriage!

    My opinion! ;)
     
  7. junior

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    NON BAPTIST POST

    [ December 27, 2003, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  8. gb93433

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    In that passage we have a number of various positions represented. Some would have said that a person could have never gotten divorced and some would have said that a man could divorce his wife is she burned a meal. Another would have said that he could have divorced his wife if he found another more beautiful. Jesus didn't answer their question except to point them back to what God wanted from the beginning.

    I think we need to consider what God considered adultery. Adultery is any perversion of what God wanted. Sexual sin is just a part of that. The word that is used here (porneia) is any sexual sin. That includes more than adultery. It can include beastiality, etc. Adultery encompasses all that perverts what God wanted from the beginning. In James 4:4 he refers to the people as adulteresses.
     
  9. preacherman3

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    , Christ warned that remarriage after divorce amounts to adultery, a sin which is explicitly forbidden by God's seventh Commandment. Both divorce and remarriage, therefore, are extremely serious steps, and both violate the divine principle of permanent union and faithfulness in marriage.

    But this is not the whole story. "The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy . "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins" (I John 1:9). This promise is specifically for Christians, and includes even the sin of adultery, if there is genuine repentance. The Lord made this very clear in His dealing with the woman who "was taken in adultery, in the very act" (John 8:4). He reminded her accusers that they also were sinners and had no warrant to punish her. Then He told the woman: "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more" (John 8:11).

    He in no way condoned her sin, but He did forgive her sin, when she gave evidence of godly sorrow and determination not to sin again in this way. Under such conditions, His followers would do well to follow His example. At least in this particular context, He put no further conditions on her freedom, either to return to her husband if he would have her, or to marry another if she were already divorced.
     
  10. TomVols

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    The greek construction of Mt 19:9 makes it impossible to interpret that Jesus was claiming that a person who divorced due to something other than porneia and remarried lived in continual adultery. At worst, only the inital sex with the new spouse would be adultery.

    I happen to interpret Jesus' statement here as hyperbolic - that is, much like having a "log in your eye" and so forth, that Jesus is holding high the standard of one spouse for life, that having another spouse is metaphorically committing adultery.

    Remember, Jesus was refocusing the priority. The question was "Can someone divorce for ANY reason?" Jesus' answer was to remind them that in the beginning this was not so.
     
  11. Daniel David

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    My position on divorce and remarriage is well known on this board, I think, so I won't rehash it.

    Bottom line though is that it is NOT continuous adultery. In 1 Cor. 7, Paul tells people to REMAIN in whatever state they are in. Obviously there were divorced and remarried folk there. However, he did not instruct them to "break" that union also.
     
  12. Headcoveredlady

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    Go and sin no more is what he told her. Remariage with the first spouse still alive is adultery.
     
  13. Daniel David

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    HCL, the question is if it is continuously adultery. Of course the remarriage is, but it isn't a continuous thing.
     

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