Matthew 24:7

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by mets65, Jan 15, 2011.

  1. mets65

    mets65
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    KJV

    For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    NIV

    Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

    NASB

    "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will come famines and earthquakes.

    HCSB

    For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

    ESV

    For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

    NKJV

    For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

    GNT

    Countries will fight each other; kingdoms will attack one another. There will be famines and earthquakes everywhere.

    So as you can see only in the KJV and NKJV is the word pestilences used.

    This is from merriam webster.

    : a contagious or infectious epidemic disease that is virulent and devastating


    Why do you think it's not included in the other versions? When referring to end times this seems pretty important. OR should it not have been added to the KJV?

    Also the other versions say various places while the KJV says Divers places. Do you think this is referring to the ocean?

    Thoughts?

    Anyone with knowledge of the greek texts know what it says?
     
  2. R. Lawson

    R. Lawson
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    Good morning,

    The KJV and nKJV use a similar underlying group of Greek texts. That is why they differ from the other readings.

    "Divers" simply means "diverse," or "in all kind of" places.

    Hope that helps. :)

    In Christ,
    Robb
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
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    Hi to mets65 and Robb,

    RE:Pestilence presence in the byzantine majority text, missing from alexandrian.

    I could be wrong but I think it's probably a case of scribal homeo/homoioteleuton.

    http://www.bible.gen.nz/amos/glossary/homeoteleuton.htm

    The words for hunger (Grk limoi) and pestilence (Grk loimoi) are very similar and pestilence (loimoi)was probably accidently dropped.

    Sometimes there was one reader and many copyist scribes in a book copying session.

    If the reader went back to the wrong place to a similar word after a series of words he had read aloud then all the hearer scribes introduced the error of the missing words into their individual copies.

    The non-byzantine scribes seemed more prone to this kind of error and its propogation.

    Conflation doesn't seem likely (although possible) in this case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflation_of_Readings


    HankD
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon
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    I'm not sure what you know of the divers Greek Texts that translators used to make their translations.

    Thousands of volumes have been written about this; I'll condence it into a few sentences.

    Quite simply stated, thousands of ancient Greek manuscripts have been collected (each differ in small ways from another)

    Two modern Greek texts have been developed using these texts, the Majority text and the Critical Text.

    The Majority text is named because it uses the majority of the texts to determine what the original Greek text was.

    The Critical text weighs the varient readings found in the Greek texts based upon various criteria (such as earlier is better).


    Here are the texts of the two groups
    Even without knowing Greek you can see the difference (which I've highlighted in red)

    “Ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος
    καὶ βασιλεία ἐπὶ βασιλείαν,
    καὶ ἔσονται λιμοὶ καὶ λοιμοὶ
    καὶ σεισμοὶ κατὰ τόπους.”
    Matthew 24:7 Majority Text

    “ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος
    καὶ βασιλεία ἐπὶ βασιλείαν
    καὶ ἔσονται λιμοὶ
    καὶ σεισμοὶ κατὰ τόπους• ”
    Matthew 24:7 Critical Text)

    The word you question is used in the parallel passage (Luke 21:11) in the Nestle-Aland Critical text.

    “There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven. ” (Luke 21:11, ESV)

    Some have suggested that it was pulled from the passage in Luke and added into the passage in Matthew.

    Rob
     
  5. jbh28

    jbh28
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    :laugh: Now that made me laugh :D

    Greek variant is the answer to your first question
     
  6. sag38

    sag38
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    The KJV uses a lot of obsolete words. It doesn't make the KJV wrong nor does it make the MV's wrong. It's simply a matter of semantics. No one says, "and they were "sore" afraid. We would say something like, "the shepherds scared out of their wits."
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    The only difference between the Byzantine and UBS Greek texts is that the UBS (and W&Y and others leaning Alexandrian) omits kai loimoi, pestilences.

    The "divers places" is from the Greek kata topouj, meaning literally "according to places." The KJV is a good translation here, though of course "divers," meaning "various" in modern English, is an obsolete word.
     
  8. mets65

    mets65
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    When I saw this I was leaning towards the KJV having the "correct" translation, but I guess you can't really say that because you can't say which greek text is the "correct" text.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Actually, I am working on a Japanese NT translation from the TR Greek text underlying the KJV, and I do believe the Byzantine is the best text. So I do go with the KJV as the best here.
     
  10. franklinmonroe

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    John, does this statement above imply that there are perhaps other places where you don't think the MT (TR/kjv) is the "best" text?
    (I will not follow up an answer on this thread, so as not to drag this one off course. Thanks.)
     
    #10 franklinmonroe, Jan 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2011
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    My position is Byzantine priority, and I can't think of any place where I prefer the UBS. Other than that, I don't address such issues on the Internet, being a missionary with many supporting churches. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  12. David Lamb

    David Lamb
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    Before I was converted, I attended a liturgical church, where the prayers were set (as opposed to extempore). I remember that one such prayer asked God to heal people of "divers diseases". It made me think of the bends!
     
  13. Greektim

    Greektim
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    Is it the Byzantine priority of Maurice Robinson or the TRonlyism of... well... you know those Dean Burgon guys?

    For example (if you are willing to answer) what do you do with the Johannine comma? It is in the TR but not the Byzantine.
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Hmm. Well, let me put it this way. My son is currently the test grader and substitute teacher for Dr. Robinson. (You might pray for him, since he recently had heart surgery and the recovery is, of course, difficult.) On the other hand, I'm persona non grata with most of the DBS folk ever since some private give and take on them promoting Riplinger (which they later quit), and also after I wrote a very negative review on Amazon about H. D. Williams' book, Word-for-Word Translating of the Received Text. (You can see my give and take back about that some time ago on this forum of the BB.)

    Other than that, I'll have to say, mum's the word. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  15. HankD

    HankD
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    Not JoJ, but FWIW, I believe it is apostolic, preserved only in a few early Itala mss and a few late Grk. mss.

    I'm not KJVO and totally reject the theory of the 1611 AV "special and/or advanced Revelation".

    HankD
     
    #15 HankD, Jan 27, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011

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