Matthew 25:31-46 Supports Amillenial View

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DeafPosttrib, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    I would like to saying something on Matthew 25:31-46. I consider Matthew 25:31-46 is probably the clearest and simplest passage speaking on the end times of the Bible than any passages in the Bible.

    Christ says:

    31 "WHEN the Son of man shall COME in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goasts:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand. Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me met: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited meL I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then say they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

    Matthew 25:31-46 telling the clear speak of:

    1. One future coming

    2. One future judgment day

    3. Two classes -Sheep(saved) and Goats(unsaved)

    4. No "a thousand years" or "the thousand years" OR "one thousand years" mention in passage.

    I do not understand why many pretribs seem have hard time deal with Matt. 25:31-46 whilst Christ speaking it so clear? I ask you two simple questions:

    Do you actual understand what Christ was talking about?

    Do you accept that Christ tells clear there will be one future coming and one future judgment day?

    If you say yes, you do understand Matt 25:31-46, then explain to me what you understand of this passage is talking about.

    Some saying, 'brethren' of Matt. 25:40 means 'Tribulation saints'. Oh really? The problem is, nowhere in this context suggest of future seven years of Tribulation Period. Even, throughout in four gospels, nowhere in the gospels that Christ say of future sveen year of Tribulaiton period.

    Use in our common sense of Matthew 25:31-46 deals with every individuals throughout all ages from the beginning(Genesis) to the very last day(John 6:39,40,44, & 54) of humankind era or gospel era, not just for 'Jews' or "Tribulation saints" either. It apply to us of every individuals of all ages both believers and unbelievers, well as both Jews and Gentiles also.

    Therefore, Matthew 25:31-46 is very clear support amillennial view.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #1 DeafPosttrib, Dec 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2008
  2. Pastor Larry

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    You should reconsider. You can't isolate one passage. YOu have to put them all together. Where does this fit in with Revelation 20, with Jeremiah 31:31-40, with Zech 12, with Amos 9:15, and with countless others? You have to do better than this.

    I don't see any reference to a day here. Perhaps you can point it out.

    Furthermore, the OT "day of the Lord" was a period of time, not a single 24 hour period.

    Furthermore, what about statements like "When he came, he died for sin"? Doesn't that obviously refer to longer than one day?

    Clearly, you have missed on your first two points.

    So do we just disregard the rest of Scripture? I don't think that is wise.

    I think it is pretty clear. I don't know of any pretribs who have a hard time dealing with it.

    Yes.

    No, and as you read the passage, you see that is not what he says.

    Again, you have to correlate all of Scripture. You can't just leave out the parts you don't like, or change them to something else.

    Not at all. But I think this type of reach shows some of the problems with amillennialism. You can't show it from Scripture, so you have to isolate passages and then ignore certain key points.
     
    #2 Pastor Larry, Dec 5, 2008
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  3. OldRegular

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    You are correct DeafPosttrib. The passage you quote is an expanded account of the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    Where in Revelation 20 are the sheep? I must have a different version because I don't see a reference to sheep there.
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    You seems hopping like as grasshopper on Matthew 25:31-46.

    Yo say,

    You seems not accept Christ's lecture of Matt. 25:31-46, but rather you follow the men of tradition's teaching (Colossians 2:8), kinds of strange or philosophy doctrines instead what Christ actual saying.

    I ask you questions.

    Can you please find any verse in the four gospels that Christ did actual say there will be two future comings? Also, I ask you, can you find any verse in the four gospels that Christ did actual teaching two or three future judgment days?

    Also, you should be aware that "Day of the Lord" have several different meanings.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    Oh Really? How about Rev.20:4? Isn't 'Sheep' being excluded from verse 4??

    What about Rev. 20:9 - "saints"? Isn't 'Sheep being excluded from verse 9 as "saints"?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20-Amen!
     
  7. OldRegular

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    The same place as the goats. Neither are mentioned in Revelation 20.

    Revelation 20:11-15
    11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    The presence of the Book of Life indicates that all the redeemed were present!
     
  8. DeafPosttrib

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    OldRegular,

    Well saying. Amen.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  9. Jim1999

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    Broadus writes on this passage:
    "Our Lord had before intimated that He was to be the final judge of men. He now describes the future judgement scene, in a way strikingly appropriate for the conclusion of His whole discourse on His coming. Especially close is the connection with the foregoing parable of the talents. in which the Master returns to examine, and reward or punish,-some expositors here introduce elaborate discussions as to the relation of this judgement to the 'thousand years' of Rev 20:1-7. Nut whatever may be regarded as the meaning of that obscure and highly figurative statement in the visions of Patmos, it seems out of place to bring in the matter here, where there is no distinct room, and no occasion whatever, for its introduction."
    Matthew, p507.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    These are rather strong words to Brother Larry.
    Perhaps someone is getting confused between what Jesus said in the Bible and what that person thinks - and it is NOT Brother Larry. Recall that this is a discussion board, if one wants to contend something, they must back it up. As far as I can tell, I'd have to AMEN! everything that Brother Larry said. But I'm really getting tired of people ignoring my points in topics I start that cover the whole subject of eschatology systematically, but start new topics by bleating the same "The Bible says" but signing stuff the Bible DOES NOT SAY.

    The BIBLE DOES NOT say there is one and only one second coming of Jesus, and it is dangerous to say Jesus won't do what He doesn't say He won't do. However, some do assume (guess, suggest, ponder perhaps, etc) that Jesus will come the Second Time only once in the Future. But that Logical assumption leads into places that Scripture Does not Support and thus can be proved: Jesus comes again more then Once. But some will doge that Proof by bleating "The Bible says" when the Bible does not say.
     
  11. DeafPosttrib

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    Ed,

    It is dangerous to say? Oh please :rolleyes: What make you think that it seems dangerous to say whilst the Bible is silence on any passages such as Matthew 25:31-46, etc?

    I know you are pretrib. I ask you questions. What made you as pretrib many years ago? Do you actual feel "convince" or "being 100% confident" that pretribulationism doctrine is a 100% RIGHT or truth doctrine base upon the Bible?? If so, please list verses to support pretrib doctrine to us. Then I would be happy to rebutal on these list verses as you present them on pretrib rapture. I will be opnely discuss on all verses as you present list of "pretrib" proof.

    I am not make-up of dumb questions to challenge people who believing in any kinds of doctrines by base upon Bible. I am serious and concerning with truths of important questions that they need to be rethinking of the doctrines, to make sure are these right by follow the Bible 100% right. I am not going to abuse their beliefs. My desire is to bring truths from Bible to them with love and concerning.

    My important question to ask you.

    Please can you show us a CLEAR verse find anywhere in the four gospels that Christ did say anything that there will be two future comings? If so. Then, please can you show and prove a verse to me, then I will believe a verse to prove two future comings to support pretribulationism doctrine.

    Secondly,

    Can you show me a CLEAR verse find anywhere in the four gospels that Christ did say there will be two or three future judgment days? If so. Then, please show and prove a verse to me, then I would believe on verse which support or prove premillennialism doctrine.

    So, I am waiting on you and Larry to answer my questions.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    I didn't know insisting on the text and its meaning was acting like a grasshopper, but if so, then so be it.

    No, actually I accept Christ's teachings specifically. Don't confuse your opinions with Christ's teaching.

    No, but let me ask you three questions. 1) Who believe in two future comings? 2) Do you know of any OT passage that speaks of two future comings? 3) Why do you limit it to the gospels? The Bible says all Scripture is inspired.

    Again, why are we limiting it to the gospels? Do you deny the truth of the rest of Scripture?

    Being an OT man, I am well aware of that.

    What I was referring to was the Great White Throne judgment which, as you should know, starts in Rev 20:15. There is not, so far as I can tell, any reference to sheep at the GWT. Do you know of one?
     
    #12 Pastor Larry, Dec 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2008
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Indeed. So it seems that the judgment of the sheep and the goats might not be the GWT judgment.

    No it doesn't. The reference to the book of life is with reference to those who aren't in it.

    You have a tendency (as all amillennialists do) to read into Scripture things that aren't there. That is not a good way to do theology.
     
  14. TomVols

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    I'm not surprised, since the whole Bible supports the amillennial view :thumbs:
     
  15. TomVols

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    Some amils may do this. Many dispies do this. I'd even say most all the dispies I know personally or studied under are very good eisegetes.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    All of them do. It is impossible to get amillennialismm from Scripture itself. Too many passages contradict it. Only by starting with that position can you get there. :D

    Indeed.

    You should get out more.

    In the end, we still have to look at texts, and amillennialism always loses when that happens.
     
  17. Jim1999

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    Speaking of reading into a text, think of all the variations amongst dispensationalists and premillennialists on the so-called rapture in 1 Thes 4: 14-18...Secret rapture, mid-trib rapture, rapture at all.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    There are a lot aren't there. But there is only one right meaning.

    I don't fine 1 Thess 4 a particularly strong Rapture passage, though I think 1 Thess 5 is virtually unassailable.
     
  19. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    You ask me three questons:

    There are plenty of pretrib baptists believe in two comings.

    None. In Psalms 96:13 says, "Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteouss, and the people with his truth."

    This verse tells us very clear there will be one future coming, and one future judgment day.

    Also, in Psalms 98:9 says, "Before the LORD, for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall judge the world, and the people with equity."

    This verse is very clear speak of one future coming, and one future judgment day.

    Also, whilst I often cited Psa. 50:10 of "the cattle upon a thousand hills" for debate about millennial doctrine. Same time, I notice in this same chapter that, I notice three clear verses prove speak of one future coming, and one future judgment day. I want to show you.

    Psalms 50:3-5 "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice."

    Psa. 50:3-5 telling us very clear that, God will come to judge the world. This passage is clear speak of one future coming, one future judgment day, and one future gathering.

    This passage is clear support amill view.

    Also, in Daniel 12:1-3 say:

    1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [Italic]and[/Italic] everlasting contempt.
    3. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

    This passage telling us very clear that there will be one future resurrection day, one judgment day. Also, this passage doesn't say anything of "one thousand years" nothing.

    Therefore, this passage shows clear support amill view.

    And in Daniel 7:9-10 say:

    "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of this head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."

    This passage tells us very clear that, there will be one future judgment day. And also, this speaks of Great White Throne of Rev. 20:11-15.

    Also, in Jude 14-15 say,

    "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesised of these, saying, 'Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

    This speaks very clear of one future coming, and one future judgment day.

    I have no idea how does Jude quoted Enoch's words of his prophecy on Lord's coming and judgment day. Enoch lived before the flood. But, this is so awful powerful passage speaks very clear of one future coming and one future judgment day. Enoch doesn't say of "one thousand years".

    I never limit it to only four gospels. You seems accuse me. And I do 100% agree with 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that all scriptures are inspired from Genesis to Revelation.

    Recently in this post, I did show you many verses of O.T. on one future coming, and one future judgment. So, I never limit to the four gospels or Pauline epistles either. I show you from throughout Bible teaching one coming and one judgment day.

    This post is already long. I better make other post to be continued.

    To be continued.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  20. DeafPosttrib

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    Larry,

    You ask me question:

    I never say that I limit it to the four gospels or Pauline epistles only. Also, I never say that I deny the truth of the rest of Scripture? Why you seem accuse me that I deny the truth of all Scriptures?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     

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