Matthew 7:13-14

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Eladar, Apr 26, 2003.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    Matthew 7:13-14

    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


    Notice that Jesus said that only a few find the narrow gate. Jesus did not say that only a few are guided to the narrow gate. It seems to me that Jesus is saying that we are allowed to choose our own destiny.
     
  2. KenH

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    So why do some choose the narrow way and some the broad way? How do you manage to keep man's boasting out of the way if it is his decision that is in essence the final piece in the puzzle, so to speak, that saves him?
     
  3. Yelsew

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    The illusion of the Gates simply points out a relative ratio of the whole of mankind that will, in fact, hear and believe.

    Calvinists say one cannot believe unless marked for salvation before the foundation of the world "the Elect".

    Jesus refutes that allegation by saying that all who will believe can come through the narrow gate.

    Human belief is dependent upon hearing the word, and all mankind are able to hear the word, God made them that way.

    Human belief is dependent on the human will, the choice that man makes regarding what is heard.

    The Holy Spirit is present for every man and depending how respondent man is to spiritual influence, the influence of the Holy Spirit is persuasive unto faith. Believers receive the Holy Spirit.
     
  4. Eladar

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    God's children are different than Satan's children. What would cause pride in Satan's child does not in God's child. That is the difference.

    Those who find the gate are humble. If they were not humble, they'd never find the gate.
     
  5. KenH

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    Actually, He doesn't. God is the One Who teaches what you call an "allegation". [​IMG]
     
  6. Frogman

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    But hearing unto belief is only accomplished by the Holy Spirit.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  7. KenH

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    The problem that you are not dealing with is what causes one person to repent and believe while another person does not repent and believe. Is the person who repents and believes smarter, wiser, more brilliant, from a better environment,etc.? Or is it a mere luck of the draw, so to speak, that one sin-soaked sinner repents and believes and another sin-soaked sinner doesn't?
     
  8. William C

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    Honestly Ken, do you know of any Arminian believers today who boast of their faith because of their Theology? Please be honest.

    Paul's comments about boasting were in direct rebuttal to the Jews who:

    1. Saw the spec in their neighbors eye but ignored the plank in their own.
    2. Who openly thanked God they weren't a Gentile or a woman.
    3. Who were self-righteous to the core
    4. Who clacked their money loudly for everyone to hear
    5. Who prayed on street corners to show off their spirituallity
    6. Who bragged about their meticulous keeping of the law.

    Do you really think Paul would think of those who simply believed that faith is man's response to God's calling as being boastful? I dont' think so.
     
  9. William C

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    You tell us Ken. What does cause "one person" not to repent and believe?
     
  10. KenH

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    According to the Bible, he is spiritually dead and unable to come to Jesus unless the Father draws him through being born from above by the Holy Spirit.

    And I am not going to argue against the Bible. [​IMG]
     
  11. KenH

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    That's not what I said. I asked if man's decision, absent the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, is the reason why he repented and believed, why would he not have every reason to boast as he, in essence, could claim that he saved himself. After all, according to the Arminian scheme, if a person does not, based on his own ability, repent and believe, then he will not be saved.

    I did not say that, practically speaking, any particular Arminian would be so brazen as to claim such a thing, although it wouldn't surprise me if such Arminians did exist, especially the ones who are closer to being Pelagians, if not outright Pelagians.
     
  12. William C

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    My point is that the verses that deal with boasting don't have anything to do with the belief that salvation is through faith. In fact, its in opposition to this as it fought against the common beleif of that day that salvation came through the works of the law.

    Calvinist want to connect man's faith to man's works, but scripture never makes that connection. Instead, they are set up as in opposition to each other.

    You believe they are in opposition to each other because works are of man and faith is of God. Right?

    Then please explain why faith is always spoken of as being of man just as works are?
     
  13. KenH

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    Nope. According to the Bible in Ephesians 2:1-10, both faith and works come from God as He works out His purpose in His children.
     
  14. Yelsew

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    Actually, He doesn't. God is the One Who teaches what you call an "allegation". [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]You say that God teaches something about "an elect out of all", while Jesus says "whosoever believeth". Is the Son of God anything other than God? Does God contradict Himself?
     
  15. KenH

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    No and no.
     
  16. Yelsew

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    God's children are different than Satan's children. What would cause pride in Satan's child does not in God's child. That is the difference.

    Those who find the gate are humble. If they were not humble, they'd never find the gate.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Satan neither created nor procreated any children, he proselytizes (steals them) from among God's children.

    Believing and retaining faith requires no work and is therefore nothing to boast about. So free will choice cannot be a matter of pride.

    Armchair quarterbacks have absolutely no enfluence on the outcome of the game. All they contribute is spectator babel. Boasting about believing in Jesus is similar in that such boasting does not change the outcome.
     
  17. Frogman

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    no work but an 'action' verb.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  18. BobRyan

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    And so... God "draws all mankind" John 12:32.

    And in that context we see the "FEW" of Matt7 going through the gate that leads to eternal life and the MANY choosing to remain on the road that goes to hell.

    Christ does not add "Be that as it may - I FORCED the ones on the narrow road to CHOOSE life so they could not boast" as IF this was His big concern in the scenario.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. KenH

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    Actually, according to the Bible(John chapter 6 for example), it is His big concern as He will lose none of those that the Father has given Him.
     
  20. Eladar

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    Ken:
    I'm afraid that I'm not privy to that information. The last time I checked, none of us were. So to ask that question and believe that you actually have that answer is to say the least presumptuous.

    All I do know is that according to Paul it is not those who hear God's truth that will be saved, it is those that do God's will that will be saved. There are those who have never heard the gospel, yet through their actions they show that they have God's gospel written on their hearts.
    None of the above. As I said earlier, nobody knows why anyone does anything. We can guess. We can take a scripture and build upon it, and come a conclusion that we can understand as long as we ignore other scripture. What we can't do is fully understand how things work. We are not God.
    If you believe that one can't fall away, I'm afraid you do argue against the Bible.
     

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