Maundy Thursday

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jkdbuck76, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
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    Are you or your congregation doing anything for Maundy Thursday
    ( the day before Good Friday)?

    We're partaking of the Lord's Supper.


    Just curious.
     
  2. amity

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    What I am doing for Maundy Thursday is wondering what it is. Did we get this from Catholicism?
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    Yes. We have Maundy Thursday and Good Friday services every year. The Maundy Thursday services always include the Lord's Supper and an emphasis on servanthood and Christ's final directions to His disciples before He faced the cross. I have heard of some churches having foot-washing on Maundy Thursday, but our church has not done that as of yet.
     
  4. Baptist Believer

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    We have received Maundy Thursday from Christian ancestors of many denominations, it is not the exclusive domain of Catholicism.

    It is simply a special service to commemorate the institution of the Lord's Supper and focus on the teachings of Jesus regarding humility and servanthood (something that Baptists have historically neglected in the United States).
     
  5. amity

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    I question it on scriptural grounds. But then I question Easter on scriptural grounds, too. I am always interested to know why and when these remnants of other faiths' liturgical practices found their way into Baptist worship.

    Nevertheless, not wishing to hijack the thread, I would like to know more about Maundy Thursday, what's maundy about it, what 'maundy' means in the first place, and why it is on a Thursday.
     
    #5 amity, Apr 4, 2007
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  6. EdSutton

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    The local ministerial association has "Holy Week" services here in my hometown annually. The various clergy who can and do participate (several Bi-vocational pastors that pastor small churches, in the area cannot realistically get away from their secular employment and are hard put to participate) rotate with the services, ending with a sunrise service on Easter (Ishtar??) Sunday. Our own church does not generally join the sunrise service, as we usually have one of our own, but our various pastors over the years have frequently led other services.

    'Course, the so-called 'Maundy Thursday' service should really be the service that is usually reserved for Good Friday, as that is the 'day of the week' when the Lord was crucified, by our calender. And the traditional "Maundy Thursday" service should be held on Wednesday. There is no so-called "day of silence" or "day of meditation" of the Wednesday in Scripture. It is concocted to make the crucifixion supposedly occur on Friday. So I get my "two pfennings" in on an annual basis, on this. :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  7. amity

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    You are saying Christ was crucified on a Thursday?
     
    #7 amity, Apr 4, 2007
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  8. Timsings

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    We have services on both Maundy Thursday and Good Friday. The first few years we did not refer to the services by those names. I don't remember what we called the Thursday service, but we called the Friday service "The Service of Darkness."

    For these two services the front of the auditorium is decorated with a hanging that stretches from platform to ceiling. It is made of burlap and has purple ribbons threaded through it in the shape of a cross. At the top of the cross is a plaited wreath of vines to symbolize the crown of thorns.

    On Thursday, the service is built around the Lord's Supper. All elements of the service (hymns, prayers, choral music, and pastor's meditation) point to it.

    On Friday, the service is built around the events of the crucufixion. It is also our major spring choir program. There are seven scripture readings followed by choral music or hymns. After each reader finishes their passage, they put out a candle on the Lord's Supper table, and the lights are lowered. When the pastor puts out the last candle, the congregation is in total darkness. We stay that way for a couple of minutes. Then the lights come up, the choir recesses in silence, and the congregation disperses in silence. It is very moving.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  9. EdSutton

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    Of course. It's the only 'day' on the Roman Calender that fits all the Biblical criteria. And the 'Passover Lamb' was selected or 'taken' on 10 Nisan, kept 'til 14 Nisan, and 'taken out' and killed on 14 Nisan, "between the evenings", don't forget.

    Ed
     
  10. amity

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    Then why the rush with the crucifixion that it should be over with before the sabbath began?

    And again, what is "maundy" Thursday? In fact could someone explain the whole liturgy of "Holy Week" to me?
     
    #10 amity, Apr 4, 2007
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  11. menageriekeeper

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    I can answer part of your question. "Holy Week" begins on Palm Sunday which commemorates the victorious entry of Christ into Jerusalem, something he probably didn't do on a Sunday, but this is how we celebrate it.

    Sometime in the next day or two, Christ left Jerusalem to teach somewhere outside the city(I'm doing this off the top of my head so I don't remember where). Just before Passover was to begin, He again entered the city, this time sending some of the disciples ahead to prepare the Upper Room.

    Maundy Thursday commemorates the Last Supper, which would be the last supper that Christ himself ate. At this supper He instituted what we call the Lord's Supper or Communion. But this was not necessarily the Passover. Passover is not a one day thing but other feasts and/or sacrifices were held leading up to it. (My knowledge here is limited)

    Judas went out that very night and betrayed Christ. Christ's "trials" were held through the night and Christ was crucified on the next day, what we celebrate as Good Friday. Passover was the next day which actually began at sundown the day of crucifixion. (Jewish days go from evening to evening, not morning to morning)

    Christ was in the grave 3 days: Friday, Saturday and Sunday. (some here will argue this and they will tell what they believe) Saturday was the day of Passover and on the next day (Sunday) when the women went to the tomb Christ had already risen, though it was still very early in the morning. This why some celebrate Easter with a "Sunrise Service".

    Hope this helps.

    Edited to say that all work, including crucifixtions, had to be completed before the Passover began according to Jewish ceremonial law. Jews who handled dead bodies were considered unclean until sundown (even though there was a ritual bath for cleaning up that was done before sundown). If they had handled Christ's body after sundown that evening they would have been unclean until sundown the next evening and thus not allowed to participate in Passover. Passover was THE most important occasion of the year.
     
    #11 menageriekeeper, Apr 4, 2007
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  12. tinytim

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    We are having a tenebrae service at our Maundy Thursday service. With a twist....
    I will also include slow Jewish music and a slide show of the crucifixion while we are having the service.
    The communion will be different too than usual.
    We will all be seated in a circle in our fellowship hall, and when I read the last supper passage, we will then pass around the bread and cup.

    Of course the candles all get snuffed out one by one, as different ones read scripture leading up to the death of our Savior, until we come to the last candle, the Christ candle... When it gets snuffed out, it will go into a special box and then the candle will be relit at the Sunrise service.

    When all candles are out, we will sit there in the dark, in silence for a few minutes, then get up and leave...
     
    #12 tinytim, Apr 4, 2007
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  13. tinytim

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    Amity, here is part of the answer, you can click on the link to the article below and read more.


    The word Maundy is derived through Middle English, and Old French mandé, from the Latin mandatum, the first word of the phrase "Mandatum novum do vobis ut diligatis invicem sicut dilexi vos" (A new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you), the statement by Jesus in the Gospel of John (13:34) by which Jesus explained to the Apostles the significance of his action of washing their feet. The phrase is used as the antiphon sung during the "Mandatum" ceremony of the washing of the feet, which may be held during Mass or at another time as a separate event, during which a priest or bishop (representing Christ) ceremonially washes the feet of others, typically 12 persons chosen as a cross-section of the community.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maundy_Thursday
     
  14. DeeJay

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    The word Maundy is derived through Middle English, and Old French mandé, from the Latin mandatum, the first word of the phrase "Mandatum novum do vobis ut diligatis invicem sicut dilexi vos" (A new commandment I give unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you), the statement by Jesus in the Gospel of John (13:34)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maundy_Thursday



    What TinyTim describes is this.

    Tenebrae (service)

    Tenebrae (Latin for shadows)

    Lighting is gradually reduced throughout the service, initially being fully lit (often including candles), extinguishing and reduction of light occurring throughout, and eventually ending in total darkness (thus the name of the service).
    During some versions of the service, the place of worship is gradually stripped, which means that the decorative elements, such as any cloths on the altar or removable objects of devotion, are removed. Imagery such as icons, crucifixes, altar decoration, and other decorative but immovable objects, are covered by plain cloths or otherwise hidden in some manner. This happens as the service progresses so that whilst at the start of the service, the place of worship is in its usual state, at the end it is totally plain.
    Also in some versions of the service, the elaboration of the acts of worship are reduced, usually starting with a full choir and organ, or other form of elaborate accompaniment, which is gradually reduced. At one point the choir leaves and does not return, at another the organ, or other musical accompaniment ceases. Eventually the service ends by an abrupt silence, and people traditionally leave without comment, or talking to their associates or the clergy.
    In some places the use of a "great noise" is included as part of the service. The service is not considered to have finished until after everyone has left the place of worship.
    The rites associated with Tenebrae may be derived from customs that are connected to the Jewish fast day of Tisha B'Av (the Ninth Day of Av.) On this day, the book of Lamentations is read, the synagogue is darkened and decorative elements are removed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenebrae_(Maundy)
     
  15. DeeJay

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    Tinytim beat me to it. :laugh:
     
  16. tinytim

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    Great minds think alike!
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Because 15 Nisan, the first day of the feast of unleavened Bread, which began at sundown was also a "Sabbath". There were other days that were "sabbaths" besides the seventh day of the week. (Lev. 16:29-34; 23; 25:1-7) In fact the feast day (first day of firstfruits) was said to be "an high day" (Jo. 19:31), something that was never said of the "regular" weekly sabbath, and the Jews did not want to kill Jesus on the feast day, for they knew, as well. (Mt. 26:5; Mk. 14:2)

    Unfortunately I cannot (adequately) explain the liturgy of "holy week" for at least part of it is built on a false foundation, but the name "Maundy Thursday" which supposedly commemorates the last supper, comes thru Middle English from Old French from Latin 'mandatum', referring to Jo. 13:34, "A new commandment I give unto you...", in Latin, the first word is "mandatum" (Commandment) and is the origin of our English word, mandate.

    Ed
     
  18. amity

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    That is very interesting, and I didn't know any of it, except for the Jewish part! That I knew. Thanks for the explanation.

    Now why do baptists do this, I wonder, since much of the baptist identity was derived from rejection of such elements in worship? I suspect your answer will be "because we like the idea. It is symbolic."

    Now I hope someone will explain the argument that the crucifixion happened on Thursday. That one really has me going.
     
  19. tinytim

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    You are right about the answer I would give you...
    Plus the way we are going to do it.. it involves all 5 senses...
    Sight.. the slides
    hearing... the music, and the word
    smell... the smell of the grape juice
    taste... bread and juice
    touch... feeling the bread.

    As for it happening on Thursday, there are some that will even back it up to Wednesday...

    When Jesus said he would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the Earth... it is impossible to get 3 nights in from Friday and Sunday morning.
    I can explain 3 days... but I can't explain 3 nights...

    this one always stumps me...

    There was a theory that on that week there were 2 sabbaths... the regular and a special on in the middle of the week....

    But I never got into it that deep.
    Most of Christendom accepts Good Friday, so I have just let it be.
     
  20. tinytim

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