Maybe ObamaCare is a good thing

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Salty, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Many libs say, that Americans should have the right to choose whatever health care they want, including ObamCare.

    I'm sure those are the same people who wanted the choice to put part of their Social Security into a private account as recommended by President Bush
     
  2. billwald

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    After this depression ending SS should be a dead issue. Everyone I know has theoretically lost at least a third of their so-called retirement investment.

    I thank God I have a good state pension and state case law to keep it from being stolen.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

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    Guess I am a conservative. I thought putting any or all of SS in private accounts was a very stupid idea when it was presented by Bush.
     
  4. targus

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    You guess wrong.

    Private investment accounts in place of social security is a social conservative approach to retirement.

    Private accounts won't look so stupid when they again start raising the retirement age or reducing benefits for social security.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Guess again! I bet you would not thing it so stupid if proposed by Obama.
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Mark my words carefully .... it is a stupid idea regardless of who proposes it. It is a sure way of making a few rich, or should I say richer, and many without any retirement funds at all.

    Very few people are willing to work at their investments. To make money in the market you have to approach it just like you would your job ... you have to work at it and watch carefully. You do not have to be a financial genius or even have a financial background. There are technical approaches that will yield good returns ... but it requires work. That cannot be emphasized enough, it takes work.

    By the way, rule #1 in investing is "never listen to a broker."

    If you would like to discuss this we can start another thread. There are some real bargains currently open to investors.
     
    #6 Crabtownboy, Jul 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2009
  7. targus

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    Social Security is a government run ponzi scheme.
     
  8. targus

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    Do you think that state employees in California are saying the same thing?
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Off topic .... but you are right. However we are so caught in it now that it has to be kept going whether you, I or anyone likes it or not. But that has nothing to do with changing it to a private system.

    What would you do with the money if they handed it all back to you and said do with it what you want for your retirement years?
     
  10. webdog

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    I have yet to see any kind of costs associated with Obamacare. What will it cost a family of 4 per month?
     
  11. targus

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    And that is the same thing that the dems want to do with our national health care system.

    They want to suck as many people as soon as possible into a system with no way out.

    Irrelevant. If it is my money it is mine to do with as I choose.

    I don't need a nanny government to tell me what to do with my money.

    BTW - my personal track record is much better than what SSI returns.

    And even if it were not that is my concern alone. Not the gubermint - not yours - not anyone other than myself.
     
    #11 targus, Jul 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2009
  12. menageriekeeper

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    Unfortunately, it is not your concern alone. What happens if a natural diasaster comes along and all the money is needed so you can recover and live now. What will you do for your retirement? Not retire?

    It is the governments place to ensure that its citizenry are fed and have shelter. Now, Mexico shirks this responsibility and so has a significant portion of its population living in cardboard boxes. The average life span there is far lower that it is here.

    Yet the government there leaves it to its population to "spend its money the way it wishes". You really wanna be like Mike?

    Because if you have your way, that means when you suddenly have a stroke and are left disabled with no insurance and no money, I'll have to walk around you dying on the sidewalk and really, I'd find that distasteful. I would sheild myself from it by saying I paid my tithe and my taxes and I have no futher responsibility toward you and I'd keep walking because you had the same "freedom" to do with your money what you wanted as I do. What should it matter to me that your life savings were wiped out by nature? God must have just been punishing you for something. It couldn't have possibly happened in order to give ME a chance to show compassion.

    SS is simply a way for the entire working population to sheild, as much as possible, those who are unable or unwilling to care for their own assets, from being destitute. Is it a perfect system? No. But it is better than nothing.

    So unless we wish to regress into a country like Mexico, then we need to stop complaining, and start finding a better solution to our problems than simply not doing anything at all, as you are proposing.
     
  13. targus

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    Well then by your logic:

    Social security alone is not enough to live on in retirement so the government should be taking much more of your money during your working years so they can give you enough to live on in retirement.

    How much more are you willing to pay for that? Four times as much?
     
  14. menageriekeeper

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    Ah, but there is a difference between preventing destitution and seeing to it that everyone has "enough". Enough is a fluid description that changes from individual to individual.

    Since I have many relatives who have only SS to live on, I can tell you SS prevents them from living in a cardboard box under a bridge and allows them enough food to prevent starvation, but it does not pay their cable bill. And that is the point.

    The main problem with healthcare, is not rising cost (though that is a problem), nor Medicare/caid but illegal aliens who crowd into our hospital ERs with nothing, but who BY LAW must be treated.

    Here's a little story for you. My husband works for a large hospital here in Alabama. The ER takes in a woman who gives her name. She has ID to "prove" that this is her name. The hospital takes her, delivers her baby and all is well until they come to fill out the birth certificate. Suddenly, the name she originally used isn't "her" name! She wants a different name to be placed on the birth certificate.

    Why? Well she was an illegal alien using someone else's ID. Simple as that. Now the hospital is holding the bag for all of her costs and guess what? There is nothing legally that can be done about it. The law says that no one may be turned away from emergency care. Now if it were me or you that tried that, we'd be hunted down by credit collectors for the rest of our lives, but illegals just hightail it back to wherever they came from and nothing is done.

    Stop the illegal immigration problem by denying access to services and turn around and spend those dollars on the US citizens that pay into the system and you will solve a big part the "health care crisis".
     
  15. rbell

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    Translation: government knows better for us than we do for ourselves.

    Besides...CTB misses the point. SS "privatization" would have been a choice. No one would have been forced to do it. But...looks like being "pro-choice" only applies in one realm for statists...
     

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