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McKissic asks SBC to add policy on tongues to statement of faith

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006.

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  1. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    By Robert Marus
    Published September 18, 2006

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (ABP) -- A Southern Baptist trustee, whose recent seminary chapel sermon was partially censored over his comments on speaking in tongues, has asked that the denomination address the issue in its official confession of faith.

    Dwight McKissic, pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, and a trustee at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in nearby Fort Worth, publicized a letter Sept. 15 that he sent to members of the Southern Baptist Convention's Executive Committee, which meets Sept. 18-19 in Nashville.

    In it, he asks SBC President Frank Page and other leaders to study the issue of tongues among Southern Baptists.

    "The purpose of this letter is to respectfully and prayerfully request that the president and Executive Committee of [the] SBC initiate a process of addressing and formally adopting a position sanctioned by the SBC in 2007 or 2008 annual meeting, to be included in the 'Baptist Faith & Message,' regarding our position(s) on spiritual gifts, private prayer language and speaking in tongues," he wrote.

    ...

    In his letter, McKissic said the denomination and its institutions need doctrinal clarification on the issue of speaking in tongues because some SBC leaders appear to hold to a "cessationist" view of tongues and other extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit outlined in Scripture. Cessationists believe tongues and other such gifts ceased after the apostolic era.

    "There is clearly a lack of consensus and clarity on these issues among Southern Baptist," McKissic wrote. "Because some in our convention are 'cessationist' and semi-cessationists who hold powerful positions of authority, they are defining Southern Baptist in the public square as cessationist or semi-cessationist, and this position has never been sanctioned in the 'Baptist Faith & Message.' It is an assumption by many that the majority of Southern Baptist are cessationist, but many of our leading professors and preachers do not hold a cessationist viewpoint."

    For the full article, click on the link below:

    http://www.abpnews.com/1369.article
     
    #1 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  2. underscoretim

    underscoretim New Member

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    I personally don't think it needs to be in the "baptist faith and message" there are too many different views; many with very good arguments for and against the practice.
     
    #2 underscoretim, Sep 19, 2006
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Sure! Lets put one in there. Since there is no biblical basis for a prayer language we can clarify that.
     
    #3 Revmitchell, Sep 19, 2006
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    You will also promptly alienate about 25%-33% of Southern Baptists.
     
    #4 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Meaning?? If the messengers decide to do so, ain't that how it works?? :confused:

    Ed
     
    #5 EdSutton, Sep 19, 2006
  6. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

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    The Baptist Faith and Message is not binding on any local church. It is not the doctrinal statement of the 44,000 churches of the Southern Baptist Convention, it is the doctrinal statement which governs the agencies and institutions of the SBC, primarily the IMB, NAMB and the six seminaries.

    We've already affirmed our belief in the scriptures, and this teaching is clearly a scriptural one, with plenty of support. Why should we, as a Baptist group, prescribe any specific interpretation of the scriptures we already affirm? The gift of tongues, as a prayer language and for personal edification, is clearly taught in scripture.
     
    #6 Jack Matthews, Sep 19, 2006
  7. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Well sure. Messengers from previous conventions have already alienated many Baptists. If the majority of messengers decide to take a cessationist viewpoint, this will simply just be another way to divide Baptists.
     
    #7 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  8. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Then alienate them . . . if they want a clarification then clarify, there is no mention of a private prayer language in the Bible.

    ;)

     
    #8 El_Guero, Sep 19, 2006
  9. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

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    Baptists seem to have quite a knack for division and alienation with or without adding anything to the BF&M.
     
    #9 mcdirector, Sep 19, 2006
  10. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I disagree, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

    If the Convention "cracks down" on private prayer languages, they will almost certainly advocate a complete cessationist position. And that will alienate at least 1/4 to 1/3 of Southern Baptists.
     
    #10 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    we need to further destroy our witness with a good fight. It's been what...2 or 3 years since we last tried to tear each other apart?

    Hey, and if we can't destroy each other over non-essentials, we could always boycott someone...that's always good for a laff...

    It's time to do another BF&M anyway...it's been several months. Pretty soon, we'll be able to do daily revisions.
     
    #11 rbell, Sep 19, 2006
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    First, I am not a cessationist.

    If the Holy Spirit was not doing miracles today, none of us would be saved.

    I am not, nor do I know of any historic Baptists that were, a Bapticostal. Bapticostal is a recent happening among Baptists.

    A Bapticostal has asked for clarification on a private prayer language.

    Not only am I against a private prayer language, there is no biblical support. There is very limited discussion of speaking in tongues in any form . . . There is support for the Holy Spirit coming into the lives of sinners and making miracles happen. However, what we are being offered is a choice of "what we interpret the Bible as" or clarify what we consider our distinctives.

    Biblically clarify it . . . and let the Bapticostals move on.
     
    #12 El_Guero, Sep 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2006
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    In regards to alienating 1/3 of the convention:

    I would rather alienate them than God by embracing an unbiblical charasmatic doctrine. Isn't it interesting how it is always the liberals who are soooo concerned about losing members and money?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #13 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 19, 2006
  14. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Who are "the liberals"?
     
    #14 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    You for one.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #15 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 19, 2006
  16. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Not by any honest, objective standard.

    And I don't think that the well-worn SBC tactic of falsely labeling your opponents as "liberals" is going to help with this controversy.

    Furthermore, I'm not "worried" about this situation except that good people will be unfairly and dishonestly maligned. (Just like you just did.)

    I am no longer a Southern Baptist, so issues of convention money and people leaving the SBC don't directly affect me. In fact, a division of the SBC over cessationism (or Calvinism, alien immersion, etc.) could possibly help the Baptist convention I am associated with, the Baptist General Convention of Texas.

    Your charges of liberalism and concern over Convention money and membership is completely baseless.
     
    #16 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  17. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Don't tell me that the charismatic agenda of taking over the BGCT is working . . .




     
    #17 El_Guero, Sep 19, 2006
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Good!:thumbs:

    1. If numbers and money don't directly effect you, then why did you bring it up earlier?

    2. Oh yeah. It is because you relish the idea of fleecing the flock in the midst of a controversy.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #18 Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 19, 2006
  19. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is good.

    I haven't mentioned money at all. (There's another false accusation!)

    As far as numbers go, I was a Southern Baptist for the first 35 years of my life, so I have a pretty good understanding of the Southern Baptist views of cessationism. It has been an interest of mine since 1984 and I have talked to quite a number of people of many different leanings about the subject.

    Nope. I don't want to see my Christian brothers and sisters falsely accused and maligned. It is not of God.

    By the way, you really need an attitude check.
     
    #19 Baptist Believer, Sep 19, 2006
  20. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

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    First of all, God is "alienated" by our sinful nature. That's what salvation is for. After salvation, we aren't alienated anymore. So that's an unbiblical argument you are posing.

    Second, the doctrine of prayer language, as proposed by Dr. McKissic, is scriptural. Those who fail to recognize that are burying their head in the sand. Did you even bother to read the letter that McKissic wrote to propose the change in the BFM2000?

    Personally, I find a lot of things in the BFM2000 to be unbiblical and wrong, but I'm still a member of a Southern Baptist church, fully cooperating. The BFM2000 isn't binding on us. You don't have to believe it to be Southern Baptist.

    The SBC already can't find 11 million people it has on its church rolls. Keep this kind of unbiblical, unscriptural, unchristlike legalism up and you'll be down to less than a few thousand in no time. When you get to heaven, you're going to have to be kept in a separate room for a while, so God can gradually let you know that there are people of other denominations there, in abundance.
     
    #20 Jack Matthews, Sep 19, 2006
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