Meaning of the Words "the Atonement"?

No, I am simply telling you what was FINISHED on calvary was PRESENTED in heaven ACCEPTED AS COMPLETED! However, you deny it was presented as completed but you believe it is still in progress and incomplete.

The two goats demonstrate your interpretative error of dichotomy in application. It took two goats and two distinct separate chronological actions in regard to those two goats in order to furnish two truths that were accomplished by ONE person by ONE act on the cross. However, by your logic those two goats would demand two different times or occasions for Christ to fulfill them - FALSE!

 

HP: Thank you for your explanation. I agree with what you say above.

 

That is right! Jesus IS THE MERCY SEAT! There is no mercy seat in heaven until Jesus entered heaven and sat down. The work was finished on the cross presented in heaven and what happens in heaven is merely present tense on going APPLICATION of what was FINISHED on the cross and presented as finished in heaven with Christ sitting down.

Leviticus 16:27 is precisely what Hebrews 13:10-13 defines as what happened ON THE CROSS outside the city


10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

 

Did you read the direct application of Leviticus 16;27 made by the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 13:12????????? Both goats and both actions apply to Christ on the cross - READ IT!

Do you deny that Jesus Christ Himself is the fulfillment of the mercy seat?????

Go back to school and learn your a,b,c's and then come back to the grown up table if you want to discuss things maturely.

 

Where then was the mercy seat when Jesus was on the cross??????? If Jesus IS the mercy seat and the atonement is made when the blood is placed on the mercy seat, then it occurred on the cross!


"And the bullock for the sin offering, and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall one carry forth without the camp; and they shall burn in the fire their skins, and their flesh, and their dung" (Lev.16:27).

According to the type, was the blood placed on the mercy seat BEFORE or AFTER the remainder of the goat was brought outside the camp and burned?????

ANSWER: Before!

Hence, if you are demanding the chronological order in the types must dictate the chronological order in the application of the type in the antitype then this order would mean the atonement was made BEFORE Christ went to the cross because Hebrews 13:12 interprets the goat being taken outside the camp to refer to Christ taken outside Jerusalem to Golgatha to the cross. So much for your forcing type chronology upon the antitype.

Jesus was the mercy seat on the cross WHEN the blood was shed = atonement.

 

According to the type the goat was sacrficed on the brazen altar before the blood of the goat was placed on the mercy seat. That was the type.

However, the application to the Antitype has them happening simletaneously in ONE person (not two goats and a bullock) in ONE place (not on a altar and outside the camp) as the antitype IS THE MERCY SEAT upon the altar of the cross!

 

GE:


The Past Present is used - a VERY common feature in the Letter to the Hebrew believers.

Here the meaning is the 'Present of purpose' -- very simple, ""For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people" "

Also, to say the Present is used, is not the full truth; because the Subjunctive must obviously have been used. Now I'll go and check up, and ...
...

... there you are, [Even this, I wrote BEFORE I have gone to check up.]
So , now I shall go and check up ...
...
“... ‘genehtai’ … “hina genehtai kai archiereus”, “so that He might become in fact High Priest”.

Then follows INFINITIVE OF NOUN FORCE functioning as object of predicate,
“so that He might become High Priest in fact The To-Make-Atonement-High-Priest ” …
“eis-_TO_-hilaskesthai-archiereus”.

When did that happen?

… when “He Himself took part of the same blood and flesh as the children (man) are partakers of (the same) blood and flesh.”

Christ WAS BORN TO BE: High Priest in order to MAKE ATONEMENT.

Now sing that carol “Chirst _IS_ born …” Present Tense— ‘PAST Present tense’.

 

RE:

GE:

No; now you go have a look again at what you’re talking, friend. I think you do not realise well enough what you are saying and have said, yourself.

Let us look what YOU have said,

“… the Greek word translated "make atonement for" is in the "present" tense …”

'Now', _you_ come and say,

Now let us look at the _word_, “… the Greek word translated "make atonement for"” …

… genehtai … Aorist Subjunctive, "he MIGHT become", and a NOUN : an Infinitive of NOUN Force, "He might become The To-Make-Atonement-High-Priest ” … “eis-_TO_-hilaskesthai-archiereus” = “… the Greek word translated "make atonement for"” because it is NOT, “… the Greek word translated "make atonement for"” … it is … the Greek word translated "MIGHT make atonement for".

Sluk jou woorde, and then come back to ”the verse and the one which follows” …

 

Jerry Shugart,

You are a Seventh-day Adventist and are trying to sell us the SDA abomination of an 'investigative judgment' since 1844.

THE WHOLE WORLD knows that; it is LONG no exasperating 'truth' to which no one had had an answer, it came so out of the blue and suddenly, everybody was caught unawares, not knowing what to answer.

But that time is PAST ... except for the poor disillusioned Seventh-day Adventists.


Now WITHOUT HAVING HAD A LOOK at it in the text, I shall bring to your attention, ANOTHER FRAUDULENT manipulation of the Scriptures which you people THRIVE on and this abomination of an IJ is totally dependent,


Jerry Shugart ...........................
"For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law" (Heb.8:4).

 

GE:

You are absolutely correct!

Well answered!

Warning!

It won't help!

 

One reason Jewish people reject Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah is because “nothing changed” after he came. Jesus didn’t immediately usher in peace for all mankind and didn’t end suffering forever. What Christians believe happens at the Second Coming, Jews believe should have happened at the First Coming if Jesus truly was the Messiah. Why are there two comings, and why was the Second Coming delayed?

The Catholic Church answers it ,this way;-

The Church’s traditional understanding is that at his First Coming Christ came as Suffering Servant who redeemed mankind and made salvation possible ( Is 53); at his Second Coming, Christ will arrive as Conquering King who will make a new heavens and a new earth ( Is 11).

Why has there been, in human terms, such a long “delay” between the First and Second Comings? One possibility is that Christ is allowing us to participate in his work of salvation by our efforts to build God’s kingdom on earth in union with his perfect work. Only Christ could make atonement for the sins of all mankind and win for us universal redemption. But we can and must apply the fruits of his work to our lives and make them available to those who have yet to receive them. And, by God’s grace, the work of the Church on earth repairs the brokenness of mankind and this fallen world. In short, God does what only he can do; but he does not relieve us of the obligation to do what we can do.

This concept is similar to a Jewish religious obligation called tikkun olam, which means the “repair of the world” or the “perfection of the world.” While many understand tikkun olam in a purely ethical sense of creating a just society here and now, it also has a messianic component: It is believed that performing mitzvot (following the commandments and doing good deeds) and thereby participating in tikkun olam will hasten the coming of the Messiah.

 

GE:


AH! The CRUX of the issue!!!

This the HEART! This is what even non-SDAs DO NOT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND … THIS:

“the "atonement" was not MADE until AFTER the sin-offering was sacrificed”

Exactly!

Read the whole of the Day of Atonement part of Exodus 16; don’t extract a word or a phrase, but consider the entire DAY’S procedures THE ONE ATONEMENT ACCOMPLISHED.

No ‘stages’; both he-goats and all the high priest’s actions ‘made atonement’ NONE more so than the VERY LAST AND CLOSING actions and events of the day.

NOTICE that the high priest by “COMING OUT” of the sanctuary, “made atonement” … ‘FINAL’, atonement; NOT THE SACRIFICE AT FIRST!

Not even Christ’s sacrifice “FINISHED” atonement / reconciliation / righteousness / forgiveness of sins whatever it may and can and IS called.

No; sacrifice “FINISHED” Sacrifice on the cross.

By giving his spirit into the hands of his Father, Jesus EXITED THE Passover Suffering of Yahweh.
That Last and Final sin-atoning Passover Suffering of Christ, He ENTERED INTO and UPON, in this night, RIGHT HERE:
Mark 14:12,17, Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30
And He went THROUGH the Last and Final sin-atoning Passover Suffering of Christ, in

THAT, SAME, ONE, night and day of the Passover of Yahweh,

first,
in “spirit” being tapped and the “LEAVEN” of his LIFE being “REMOVED OUT” through the anguish of his soul,

and next,
being “KILLED”, and He DIED, and GAVE his Life-BLOOD.

THEN, Jesus cried with a loud voice : “FINISHED!”

But had God done with Christ? Had God finished atonement? No!

The sacrifice of Jesus would have been of no more worth than the sacrifices the priests on earth are every year bringing HAD GOD NOT RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD!

HERE is the antitypical equivalent of the earthly priests’ applying the blood TO THE ALTAR INSIDE THE MOST HOLY PLACE, an ‘OFFERING’ no longer in the sense of the killing of the sacrifice, but an ‘OFFERING’ in the sense of a PRESENTATION.

Which symbolism the passover enacted by the REAPING and the BRINGING and the WAVING of the FIRST SHEAF : “BEFORE THE LORD” …

… and the judgment day or day of atonement enacted by the RELEASING of the he-goat “for Azazel” the type of “Saviour Healer Mighty God” Jesus Christ “Whom God RAISED FROM THE DEAD”. .

“… "atonement" was not MADE until AFTER the sin-offering was sacrificed” …
AND,
“OFFERED BEFORE THE LORD”, THE LIVING …
… IN THE MOST HOLY PLACE of his Own Being …
… IN THE Full Fellowship of God Tri-Une the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

GE:

"second coming" is actually a misnomer. The New Testament calls Jesus' return at judgment day, his Appearance.

"second coming" is actually a misnomer because Jesus' REAL 'second coming' is his Resurrection from the dead.

"Everyone that confesses: 'Jesus-Christ-come-in-the-flesh' [FROM THE DEAD] is of God;
everyone that does NOT confess THIS JESUS (the Jesus-Christ-come-in-the-flesh-FROM-THE-DEAD), IS,
is not of God and is the antichrist." 1John 4:2,3.

 

I only listen to the One True Church that was formed by Jesus and Jesus formed His One and only True Church on His Apostles, so tell me Gerhard did Jesus form your church on His apostles or was your church invented in the 19th century by a mere man or woman ?