Merritt, Gushee: On creation care, evangelicals must move toward 'we'

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Nov 4, 2009.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    Christ never preached selfishness. Caring for our planet is a all of us as is taking care of each other.

     
  2. Johnv

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    It's obvious that the issue of environmentalism is often politically charged and divisive. That aside, I've never understood the menatality of Christians who don't express any particular concern or sense of responsibility for care of the earth and its natural resources. I was once told on this board that only liberals recycle. That was several years ago, and I certainly hope that's no longer the majority view of Christians.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    I doubt if anybody would disagree that we need to be good stewards of what God has given us--including the environment.

    The problem comes when we average folks get mixed messages about what the problems are, and the solutions to those problems.

    Some of the climate change rhetoric borders on the hysterical. And some of the solutions proposed are silly.

    What are we to think of the scary global warming screeds, when we are confronted with evidence that the earth is in a ten-year cooling trend?

    I'll be more concerned about that stuff when I'm convinced that the danger is real.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    When there is an actual crisis and a need to make a change, when there is actual damage being done by man let me know. Until then I will put my attention to actual needs instead of false agenda's and propaganda used for the purpose of political control.
     
  5. Johnv

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    We aare currently doing damage to the earth. The need to change currently exists. Problems with polluted waterways, acid rain, and poisoned groundwater has existed for decades. The amount of waste we create in landfills alone is alarming. Then there's our waste that's floating in the ocean. At this very moment, there is a garbage patch of plastic in the pacific ocean, that's greater in area that the size of the U.S.

    Just because we might not be the primary cause of global warming doesn't mean we're not the primary cause of many other things.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Landfills do not concern me. The other things are local not global. There is no global climate crisis. It is a political tool for power and nothing more.
     
  7. Johnv

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    So let me get this straight. It's okay to do environmental damage to the earth so long as it's not global?
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    As if thousands or tens of thousands is not a global problem.

    Strange thinking.
     
  9. Johnv

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    It just floors me that a Christian would have that attitude. [personal attack snipped]
     
    #9 Johnv, Nov 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2009
  10. ccrobinson

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    The government would rather waste time on "global warming" than actually work on real problems.
     
  11. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I don't think any Christian does not care at all about the earth, or is for pollution. So often this is presented in terms of a false dilemma - either we jump on the creation/environmental care bandwagon or we don't care about the stewardship of the earth. The issue is: how far do we go for "creation care?"

    As for the "climate changes," scientists still do not agree on the causes, possible effects, or solutions. We need more facts. It could be there is nothing we can do - that the earth is going through one of its cycles it has gone through before.

    And what should we do about the problems above? I think there are so many environmental laws already in place to address these. And big companies and manufacturers will continue to ignore them sometimes. Right now, we recycle (and it is not even clear that this helps and it also causes more fumes from cars and trucks to be put out), use re-usable bags at the grocery store, avoid using a lot of paper products, and buy recycled materials, etc. There is only so much that can be done.

    No matter what we do, we are in a fallen world and will continue to do something destructive since that is the pattern in place. This does not mean we shouldn't care, but I am not jumping on any creation care agenda bandwagon at the moment.
     
  12. Johnv

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    I happen to agree. The money speant on global warming could be better speant on cleaning up the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. It's an immediate threat, and an immediate need.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    You have a severe reading comprehension problem. Just because I did not acknowledge your attempt to derail this thread by speaking about local issues does not mean I support those things. Read the op and stick to the issue being global. But them all you are really doing is misrepresenting what I said to create a reason for a personal attack. Hard to feign objectivity here isn't it.
     
    #13 Revmitchell, Nov 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2009
  14. matt wade

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    It would help if you started by not spreading misinformation about this "Great Pacific Garbage Patch". You stated earlier in this thread that it wa "greater in area that the size of the U.S." Well Holly Bamford, director of NOAA's Marine Debris Program, disagrees with you.

     
  15. Johnv

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    DOH! I sit corrected. And I knew that, too. I mistyped, and did so rather badly, sorry. It's actually shown to be roughly twice the size of Texas. Your are correct.
    Individual Christians don't need laws in order to individually reduce waste, reuse materials when reasonable, and recycle where reasonably possible. You're doing that, and so am I. Why aren't more people doing so, especially Christians?
    But we can mitigate our damages. A lot of people aren't doing that, and don't care to, out of indifference or inconvenience.
     
    #15 Johnv, Nov 4, 2009
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  16. Johnv

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    Oooh, lookie, Revmitchell is being his normal "it's okay for me to disrespect others" self again.
    Hahaha!! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!! Haaahaa!!!!:laugh::laugh:
     
    #16 Johnv, Nov 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2009
  17. Johnv

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    I share your POV. No, it's not necessary to jump on any bandwagon to be a good steward of the earth. It is necessary, though, to be a good steward of the earth. That's every Christian's calling.
    We should do what is reasonable. That's what you're doing.
    The issue of climate change is only one issue. There are numerous more direct issues that we are solely or primarily responsible for. Pollutes waterways are a good example. Polluted beaches are often an issue here, one that is the direct cause and control of individuals.
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    There are many issues that need to be addressed.

    1. Antibiotics are found in almost all drinking water now. This has led to mutation problems with various amphibians and fish. As we humans are larger it may take more time for such anomalies to begin showing up. This issue can be most easily addressed by people discarding their unused antibiotics in a safe way rather than flushing them down the toilet.

    2. Plastics are being found in almost all the foods we eat that have been processed. There is no way this can be good for us. There is not much the average person can do about this. It will have to take changes in corporation packaging to address this problem and I doubt they will do anything until they are forced to. Shades of the tobacco industry, "Smoking will not harm you."

    3. The polar ice caps are disappearing.

    4. Mt. Kilimanjaro's snow top will soon be without snow.

    5. Acid rain ... produced by industrial emissions. If you do not believe acid rain injures our forests go see the dead trees in the Great Smokies.

    6. Ozone depletion ... children in New Zeland are not allowed to go outside at recess unless they have hats on. Skin cancer is on the rise.

    7. Rain forest destruction ... totally caused by mankind. The long range effects of this will be catastrophic.

    Almost all the terrible flooding we have seen in Central America and other rd world countries has been caused by stripping the hills and mountains bare. There is nothing left to hold the water when big storms hit.

    The list could go on and on.

    God told us to care for the earth, not rape it.


     
  19. Johnv

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    CTB, I could easily provide a list of smaller issues that are easily combated by people making very minor changes in theri lives, but people don't want to make those minor changes. If people don't want to make thos eminor changes, why should we expect people to take bigger issues seriously.

    And yes, God told us to care for the earth, not rape it. We rape it anyway, and do so boldly. Many of those who do so are Christians, and they should be ashamed of themselves.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    I agree with you. And you show why we Christians/Americans have to change our thinking from 'me' to 'we'.
     

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