Military Service, Sin, and the Right to Speak

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Pastor Larry, Oct 3, 2007.

  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    In a previous thread I made the following comment:

    It was at first responded to by thinking twice, and then later the response was made anyway. It read

    Let me respond since I was unable to then, due to the thread being closed.

    First, callling someone else's ideas misguided takes no nerve. It takes only a differing opinion based on a thoughtful consideration of the issues at hand. There are some who appear to think that disagreement is the worst thing in the world, and the disagreement with their political view is tantamount to treason or at least ignorance. Our country was founded by men who disagreed strongly, and voiced those disagreements. We know that because they voiced them in print and we have them today. That is a healthy function of democracy and political exchange. Some need to get past the idea that anyone who differs from them is stupid and doesn't get the facts. None of us are omniscient. We do not fully know the present, much less the future. So let's act like it.

    I believe that we need a more tempered view of our own opinions, recognizing our own weaknesses and biases. This is why I continually encourage a measure of humility by saying "I don't know" and "I think." Dogmatic pronouncements have no place among people who do not have enough information to actually know the present, much less the future.

    Second, the comment on sin to join the military was very precise, and was totally misrepresented in the response. It is unfortunately not uncommon for some not to read closely. I said it would be sin for me to join the military because God had called me to gospel ministry. I also said that for others it would not have been sin. (See original post above.) For this poster to have the response about everybody agreeing with me would mean that we would be under German langauge under control of the state is simply misreading or misunderstanding what I said.

    The fact is that if everyone agreed with me, then 1) everyone called to gospel ministry would actually go into gospel ministry, and 2) there would be countless others who would join the military since God has not called everyone into gospel ministry. Such an understanding is self-evident from the words that were used. I made no statement about anyone else joining the military. I made a statement about me joining with respect to my calling in life. I plainly said that for others it would not be a sin.

    Which leads me to repeat a concern I have had often in a number of different places here on the board.

    1. There are way too many people who do not actually read and think about what is being said. They respond almost out of their gut, picking up a few words and responding to them out of context, without paying attention to what else was said.

    2. There are entirely too many personal attacks, whether open or thinly veiled. Someone recently commented to me that the BB is not the place it used to be and that this was the reason. While the moderators have the power to edit and fix it, it should fall on the shoulders of the participants to lift the conversation rather than drag it down.

    There is no problem with disagreement, even strong disagreement. There is a problem when it becomes personal. That needs to stop so that the BB can be restored to what it used to be ... a nice place to fellowship and chat and disagree and agree. Not a place to attack others and insist that those who disagree with you are stupid and unAmerican.

    Let's fix it before it gets worse.

    Lastly, there are some who seem to think that if you haven't served in the military, you have no right to speak on these issues. This seems to be a strange reading of the first amendment, and a strange understanding of the ideals that our country is about. We can do better on the BB and we should.
     
    #1 Pastor Larry, Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
  2. KenH

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    Amen to that, brother.:thumbs:
     
  3. hillclimber1

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    I believe that tactic came from Karl Marx, and is oft cited here.
     
  4. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Pastor Larry:

    I read your initial comments to mean that it was not God's will for you to join the military and so you did not. You acknowledged that for others it may be God's will and so they should. I have no disagreement with you. It is no more God's will for everyone to join the military than it is for everyone to be a preacher or for everyone to live in North Carolina.

    In the thread on Rush's comments I made the statement:

    Let me say Larry that you have every right to speak your mind on military issues. In fact as a pastor you probably have more than a right you have a responsibility to make your thoughts known to your congregation. Your freedom of speech is one of the principles I joined the military to fight for. Don't let them intimidate you and shut you down.
     
  5. saturneptune

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    I am the cause of most of the subject of this particular thread. As of late, seeing a constant parade of pseudo-conservatives from the Republican party wears thin. This is closely related to, in my mind, those who are in favor of the conduct of this war, which is not winning, but lingering, and costing American lives. Sometimes when I think about the loss of life, I lose perspective of the overall big picture.

    One can get so wrapped up in criticizing this from a conservative standpoint, that conclusions are reached that you really do not believe down deep inside.

    Everyone has the right to speak their mind. That is why we serve. Also, when one thinks ahead a little, and thinks of the ramifications of a Hillary or Democratic leader, the damage has to be immense. Maybe it is time to stop raking the Republicans over the coals and pray they nominate someone that can take leadership of this nation.

    A Democrat is that last thing I want elected, and the 1st Amendment being violated is the last thing I want. My apologies for suggesting otherwise. It is time to put this subject to rest for my part.
     
    #5 saturneptune, Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
  6. saturneptune

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    Since the subject of this op is those who did not serve have the right to speak, so do those who served.

    When I was young, there were lots of people who followed a higher calling in the late 60s and early 70s. There were lots more who followed a northern call to Canada. There were others who followed the call that it was against their faith to defend the nation.

    What always seemed odd to me is that most who had a higher calling went ahead and did their two years, and the higher calling was still there when they got out. It is hard to understand how those in the above paragraph could have ever learned the meaning of the word sacrifice in its most dangerous form.

    One thing, those who did the above at least had the honesty to declare they were against the war.
     
  7. Ivon Denosovich

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    No, you have a different calling, not a higher one. There is no higher calling than God's calling regardless of what that consists of.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I think there is a valid point here Ivon.
     

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