Millenial Exclusion

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by humblethinker, May 31, 2012.

  1. humblethinker

    humblethinker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    0
    While going to and from watching MIB3 (movie) in downtown Fort Worth, on the sidewalks at a scpecific corner is a group of hecklers... preachers?... that will heckle people on their night on the town. They've done this every Friday night for years, I believe. I enjoy having kind conversations with people that will engage likewise, especially with Fundamentalists. I actually have had a couple of very nice conversations with a couple of the guys. This group uses, as part of their spiel, the idea of Millenial Exclusion along with the 'reverse cat-calls' of derogatory and provacative names against all people regardless of what business they are conducting downtown.

    Regarding Millenial Exclusion, is it only in Fundamentalist circles? Is it a growing idea among the more extreme Fundamentalists?

    They had this on their website:

    20 Questions for KJV Onlyists Who Object to Millenial Exclusion

    1.In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul labors to keep from being a “castaway.” In Luke 9, Jesus addresses His disciples (including Peter, vv.20, 23), and John and James (v.27-28), and He also warns them about the possibility of being “cast away” (v.25). Why don’t you use Luke 9:25 to understand what Paul means in 1 Corinthians 9:27?
    2.Did the warning in Luke 9:25 still apply to Peter, James and John when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 9:27?
    3.If it did not, at what point did the warning that Jesus gave to Peter, James and John in Luke 9:25 cease to apply to them?
    4.Why do you think the Devil would use the NIV to destroy the link between Luke 9:25 and 1 Corinthians 9:27 (by erasing the words castaway, cast away)?
    5.In Mark 9:38, John is speaking. When the Lord answers him, who does the “thy” (second person singular) refer to in Mark 9:43?
    6.Does the phrase “ye belong to Christ” in Mark 9:41 mean that John was eternally saved?
    7.In verse 50, who is Jesus addressing?
    8.When are unbelievers bodily resurrected for judgment?
    9.Do unbelievers, according to a KJV, go to Hell after their bodily resurrection, or do they go to the Lake of Fire? (see Revelation 20:14-15)
    10.Who is Jesus warning about going to “Hell” in BODY, an unbeliever or a believer (Mark 9:47)?
    11.According to Jesus, to escape Hell is to enter the Kingdom of God in body (Mark 9:47). When does this Kingdom begin (see Luke 21:31)?
    12.When is the Last Day, mentioned by Jesus in reference to unbelievers in John 12:48?
    13.When did Jesus promise to raise up everyone who BELIEVES upon Him in John 6:40?
    14.Can you believe the Gospel, yet refuse to confess Jesus, and be a faithful believer? (see John 12:42, Matthew 10:30-32, 2 Timothy 2:12)
    15.Does Jesus have something more for believers who confess Him, live for Him, and suffer for Him? What is it?
    16.What is the “better resurrection” that many were tortured in order to receive in Hebrews 11:35?
    17.What is the “resurrection” that Paul suffered for, and for which he allowed himself to be made conformable to Christ’s death in order to attain in Philippians 3:10-11?
    18.Is the Last Day the same as the Seventh Day in Hebrews 4:4-11?
    19.Since Jesus warned His disciples about the danger of going to “Hell” in soul and BODY (see Matthew 10:28), and since unbelievers only go to “Hell” in their SOUL before their resurrection, and since all unbelievers come out of “Hell” to stand at the Great White Throne, and are then cast into the Lake of Fire, was Jesus warning believers or unbelievers about going to “Hell” in their BODIES? Do modern Christians need to fear this warning?
    20.A believer can be made sick or killed by God in this life, and still possess everlasting life (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11:30). Where is the Bible verse that teaches that temporary chastisement in the age of the Millennial Kingdom would neutralize the promise of everlasting life, even though temporary chastisement in this life does not?
     
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    The doctrine of Millennial Exclusion is a false doctrine. Believers will not be cast into outer darkness, contrary to the heretical teachings of Joey Faust, Charles Stanley and others.
     
    #2 Steadfast Fred, May 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2012
  3. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    501
    Likes Received:
    0
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is a good subject to stay away from. A few years back several were banned over this subject. Aside from that, it is one of the most ignorant docitrines I have ever heard of.
     
  5. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Answers from a Non-KJVO Bible student:

    1.In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul labors to keep from being a “castaway.” In Luke 9, Jesus addresses His disciples (including Peter, vv.20, 23), and John and James (v.27-28), and He also warns them about the possibility of being “cast away” (v.25). Why don’t you use Luke 9:25 to understand what Paul means in 1 Corinthians 9:27?

    Paul says he exercises self control, so that he walks the talk concerning self control, so that he would not be disqualified or rejected. But by who? In order to be an effective preacher, to have his words accepted, he needs to walk the talk, so Paul may be referring to being rejected as an apostle of Christ, by his audience. Two different Greek words are both translated by the KJV as cast away. But the actual meanings are different, in 1 Corinthians 9:27 the idea of the Greek word translated castaway is rejection. But in Luke 9:25 the idea of a different Greek word is suffer loss.

    2.Did the warning in Luke 9:25 still apply to Peter, James and John when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 9:27?

    Christ’s warning concerning the need to take up our cross (sacrifice our self interest) and follow Him is applicable to all believers.

    3.If it did not, at what point did the warning that Jesus gave to Peter, James and John in Luke 9:25 cease to apply to them?

    Question is moot.

    4.Why do you think the Devil would use the NIV to destroy the link between Luke 9:25 and 1 Corinthians 9:27 (by erasing the words castaway, cast away)?

    Sometimes fallible humans, trying to serve God and present His message are mistaken. The KJV translated two different words with very different meanings with the same English word. Thus they unintentionally obliterated the distinction made in the original text.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,026
    Likes Received:
    47
    Heretical teaching, denying the full provision of the cross of Christ as the basis for our spiritual state before God found in Christ!

    Judgement seat of jesus will handle our "judgement" testing of good works, not exclusion from th Millinium!
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems like no one is getting the message. This discussion will lead to someone being banned.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,026
    Likes Received:
    47
    good time to have a Mod shut this thread down before danger zone gets reached!
     
  9. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that is only if someone prosyletizes this awful doctrine.
     
  10. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    The ban is for those who promote it. So far, all replies have been against the doctrine of Millennial Exclusion.

    What is the OP's reason for posting it? Is he for the doctrine? or against?
     
  11. humblethinker

    humblethinker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, not for it at all. I was surprised to hear that they were Baptist. They spoke highly of J Frank Norris.
     
  12. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    The more I read about that doctrine, the more sad I get for those who are teaching and preaching it.

    It is similar to the Catholic's purgatory, except for one detail... the Catholics believe they can be prayed out of purgatory, or pay their own way out. The ME group believes their purgatory is forever their home.

    Truly, both are doctrines that take away from the blood sacrifice that was made to purge man from sin.
     
  13. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, they don't believe it is permanent, but takes place during the 1000 year Millenial reign (hence the "exclusion"). After the completion they will have "every tear wiped away" and will be restored to the kingdom.
     
  14. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks.

    At any rate, theirs is a false doctrine.
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,212
    Likes Received:
    192
    Funny, old J. Frank certainly didn't believe this heresy. And so far I've not met a Fundamentalist who did, though I'm sure they're out there.
     
  16. pilgrim_99

    pilgrim_99
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've heard of the doctrine before, and specifically of Stanley's version of it. But I didn't know it was called "Millennial Exclusion."
     
  17. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now I remember what M.E. is. Heresy to the core.

    I had forgotten I had posted in this thread.
     
  18. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is also known as "Kingdom Exclusion"- seems it has been around for longer than I thought.

    Contemporary exponents of this teaching are preceded by the likes of Robert Govett (1813-1901) and Watchman Nee (1902-1972), men who argued that sins committed after a person’s conversion are not covered by the blood of Christ exclusively. At the culmination of the ages, works are necessary for salvation to be complete. For justification of this doctrine, Govett and Nee employ passages relating to “kingdom rewards,” but insisting that rewards are a product of God’s grace, not man’s effort. At the critical moment, however, exclusionists argue that salvation is ultimately accomplished by works.

    (http://kingdomexclusion.com/)

    Joey Faust was the first that I heard of to promote it. I was shocked to hear that Charles Stanley believed it.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,308
    Likes Received:
    784

Share This Page

Loading...