Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

Lacy Evans said:

Try Bob Ryan of the 7th Day Adventists. You two are going to hit it off real good.

They call it Investigative Judgment, you call it Millenial Exclusion.

 

Well if we are going to keep track. I don't believe in this. There is no biblical teaching that genuinely saved people will first spend time in hell, and second that genuinely saved people would be excluded from the millenial kingdom.

Bro Tony

 

We used to be few, but now we have conferences, Bro Bob. There is going to be one in October if you would like to attend. We just had a missionary come to our church, who is a kingdom preaching baptist from Chatanooga, who came to the knowledge through his own studies. God is reviving the teaching of the kingdom in these last days and preparing his church for his return. Like John the Baptist said, we need to repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand!

 

Sounds like purgatory to me.

By the way

The color symbol for sin in the Bible is red.
They sprinkled blood on the mercy seat in the OT for God's forgiveness.
What's the one color you can't see when looking through red-tinted lenses? Red!
So how are we to get ready (worthy) for Christ's coming? By allowing Christ's sacrifice on the cross count for us - to covered by His shed blood.
In God's view we are MADE WORTHY or MADE RIGHTEOUS by Christ's shed blood.

 

You are absolutely right Debby, we must be covered in the shed blood. Get some on ya! But once we have been saved, we are commanded to be holy Christians. Not to keep our salvation, or to prove we really believe, but to obtain the reward. Everyone knows that Jesus is going to be handing out crowns at the judgment seat, but they don't see that suffering loss is losing anything more than crowns. Even though He says they shall be saved by fire...

Any righteousness that a Christian has at the judgment seat is still by the power of Christ's shed blood. It is Him working through us. Positionally, we are sanctified and on the last day, at the great white throne, when we stand before the Father, He will look at us and see His Son... but we will stand before the Son first and be judged for our works.

 

And we will cast them at His feet. Can't do that if you're not there!

 

And we will cast them at His feet. Can't do that if you're not there! </font>[/QUOTE]The problem is, not all Christians will have crowns to cast at His feet. Yes indeed, suffering loss means no crowns, but it is a little deeper.

 

Funny y'all (millenial exclusionists) keep saying that the kingdom of God = millenial kingdom, yet Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21). Romans 14:17 describes it as righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Of course, you already know that the kingdom of God is not otherwise explicitly defined and that most dogmatic definitions are just what people read into the phrase.

 

TC, there is a literal 1000 year kingdom of God, we see that clearly in Revelation (funny name for a book that is supposed to be hard to understand.) If we are ever to take the bible literally, then surely we are to take the kingdom literally. The Jews knew that the Messiah was coming to set up a kingdom on this earth, and they questioned Jesus about it constantly. When Christ talks about entering the kingdom, you wouldn't think he was talking about entering into the pharisees, since the kingdom is within them, would you?

Matthew 13
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The word of the kingdom is the seed that is being sown in this parable.

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Here the seed IS the kingdom.

The kingdom being inside of us is a picture of the teaching of the kingdom, which when it takes root produces the fruit of righteousness.

 

There is not the slightest bit of evidence that Matthew had ever even heard of the concept of a future millennium.

 

Deafposttrib,

Read carefully what I am about to communicate to you and, as you do, try "thinking outside your dogmatic box" concerning your VIEW of the Holy Scriptures.

There is REVELATION within the bible that goes BEYOND the Lord Jesus' earthly ministry. Jesus appeared many times to the apostle Paul and REVEALED the doctrines for the body of Christ to him. These doctrines are not the same as those taught by Jesus during His earthly ministry to the nation of Israel. These doctrines are SUBSEQUENT to and are CORROBORATED by both Jesus' earthly ministry and the Old Testament. In some cases, these doctrines CONTRADICT the earthly ministry of Jesus (i.e. the Messiah was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel). These doctrines are the words of Jesus Christ as given to the apostle Paul. These words of Jesus are FOR members of the body of Christ. The words of Jesus during His earthly ministry were FOR the nation of Israel.

Having said that, it is clear from your posts that you are NOT "rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15). You are taking scripture that "belongs" to the nation of Israel and APPLYING it to members of the body of Christ. That is a grave error, my friend in Christ.

If you can hold on to the scriptural VIEW described above, allow me to apply it to your post which follows:

I did read Joey Faust's book - "The Rod". Mr. Faust quoted so many statements from scholars, commentators, pastors what they saying about millennial exclusion. He trying to prove us, that he is not alone to teaching on this, he showing us there is overwhelming proves from scholars believed in millennial exclusion. I don't care what if 10,000 people support it against 1 person opposite it. So what. "For what saith the scripture?" - Romans 4:3a. Listen what God's Word saying than what men saying. We have to be careful what we read books, listening teachers, pastors, etc. Never know what if they teaching error or misinterpreting the scriptures. Colossians 2:8 warns us, we do not let any men's teaching in their own philosphy spoil us. Let's stick with God's Word, what it saying.

Let's stick with God's Word, RIGHTLY DIVIDED.

The question is, do you see any verse in the context of Matt. 25:14-30 mentioned, 'a thousand years'? Does Christ saying, "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth for a thousand years."? Or, does Christ saying a unprofitable servant shall be released out of the outer darkness after a thousand years? Silence.

Wrong division, my friend. Jesus is speaking TO the nation of Israel concerning the end times. The millennium is clearly and literally defined by Revelation 20:2-7.

Matt. 25:30 does not support security salvation or chastenment. It is very clearly warn apply to us as servants, if any servant do not serve the Lord, shall cast into everlasting punishment - lake of fire.

Of course it doesn't but not for the reasons you believe. Wrong division, again.

You have to accept and believe what Christ saying, do not resisting or struggling what Christ saying. Accept His Word.

And, one must also RIGHTLY DIVIDE His Word. If Matthew 10:6 & 15:24 was APPLIED to members of the body of Christ, no Gentile would be included..

By the way, Matt. 24:14 does not saying preach the gospel for 'millennial kingdom'. Matt. 24:14 simple mean we are preaching the same gospel spread over the world since Early Church to today, and will continue through great tribulation till Christ comes at the end of the age.

Wrong division, again. The CONTENT of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" is different than the "Gospel of the Grace of God". Only the PURPOSE, salvation, is the same. The "kingdom" is the EARTHLY kingdom promised to Israel. The "Gospel of the Kingdom" was preached during Christ's earthly ministry and will be preached AGAIN during the Great Tribulation.

Christ tells us, we must to be endure to the end then shall be saved - Matt. 24:13. He said, "But he that shall ENDURE unto the end, the same SHALL be saved." Endure means to be patience and steadfast, not give up. Or, if give up and not abide in Christ shall not be saved according to John 15:6 - "If a man abide NOT in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them INTO THE FIRE, and they are burned."

No, Christ told that to the NATION of ISRAEL, who will endure the Great Tribulation. He elaborated upon it in Revelation.

Onced to believe and accept Christ is not good enough go to heaven, we have to believing in Jesus Christ daily, we have to live by the faith, to endure for Christ all the way to the end - our death or Christ comes, then we shall be saved.

This flies in the face of what Jesus REVEALED to the apostle Paul (see Ephesians 2:8-9). Your righteous works, or lack thereof, will be tried before the Judgment Seat of the Lord Jesus Christ BUT these works are NOT CONNECTED to salvation. (see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

 

Nowhere in the Bible saying kingdom of God/heaven is so called 'a thousand years kingdom'. People asked Christ, want to see physical kingdom, Christ told them, didn't we know that kingdom of God/heaven is within us. Christ was not discuss about a thousand years, he discussed about spiritual things, God's things and eternality kingdom.

I am not postmill, I am amill.

Revelation chapter 20 shows a figurative meaning of our reign with Christ, we are now reigning with Christ, because Christ defeated Satan at Calvary, all nations now can hear the gospel through us. We received the power to preach the gospel to all nations through Holy Spirit - Matt. 28:18-20; Acts 1:8.

'A thousand years' does not take into literally of lengeth time.

How about Psalm 50:10 "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

Isn't God own 1001 hills?

What about Psalm 105:8 "He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations." ?

If suppose this verse takes literally. That means, 1,000 generations equal about 40,000 years. Will God's covenant being limited at least 40,000 years? No. Notice it says, "He hath remembered his covenant FOR EVER." His covenant is an eternality, have no end. 'to a thousand generations' shows that His covenant is for to many or countless generations, his covenant is no limited, not just for the Old Testament saints only, also include all New Testament saints. Christ's covenant is given to all ages of all saints from the beginning to the end. His covenant is an eternality.

What about Ecclesiastes 6:6 "Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?"

Does it saying a person actual live a thousand years literally? No. King Solomon tells us the point is, no matter how long a person could stay live, his life is a vain, and under the sun, he said, "yet hath he seen NO good: do not all go to one place?" He telling us, no matter how long a person stay live, a person's life is a vain.

How about 2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."?

Does Apostle Peter takes 'a thousand years' literally? No. Peter telling us the point is, we are with the Lord one day AS a thousand years, show us, that we shall be with the Lord forever and ever without end. Also, the context of 2 Peter 3:3-10 talking about the last days scoffers ask, 'where is the promise of Lord's coming?' . Throughout many centuries, often people heard the gospel saying Christ is coming again, they already hear it again and again for many years, they were expecting Lord might come again in their lifetime, but Lord didn't come in their lifetime. They already died throughout centuries. Also, the point is, many people do not believe Christ is coming again, same as during Noah's day, many people do not believed in flood, they never see rain in their lifetime. I am sure they were make laugh at Noah, they think he is nut.

Peter warns us, Christ shall come as in the thief in the night is a suddenly event without any expect, same with in Noah's day, people were not expect of flood suddenly came upon them, and took them away.

In our sight, a thousand years seem too long to us, but, in the Lord's sight, a thousand years is too short for him like as one day. Understand?

Throughout the Bible, it never saying kingdom of God/heaven means a thousand yeasr of kingdom.

What's more? None find anywhere in the 65 books of the Bible saying Christ's reign will be last for only a thousand years.

At another discussion forum, a person rightly said:

I agree with his point.

Whilst myself was a premill before for a long time. I studied Bible about millennium. I find many troubles while studying Bible about millennium. Matthew chapter 13 caused me into trouble, that Christ tells us, the tares shall not be separated from the wheat(believers) TILL the end of the world come, that means, both are growing together over the world till the end of the world come shall be at Lord's coming. Christ does not mentioned 'a thouand years' find anywhere in the context of Matthew chapter 13.

Also, Matthew 25:31-46 caused me into trouble. Christ tells us, WHEN Christ shall come with his angels, He shall send his angels to separate goats from sheep, and cast them into everlasting punishment - vs. 46. Christ does not saying 'a thousand years' find anywhere in the context of Matt. 25:31-46.

John 6:39,40,44, & 54 caused me trouble the mostly. Christ tells us, we all shall be risen on the LAST DAY, Christ does not saying there shall be 2,555 days(7 years) apart Christians' resurrection and Christ's coming, OR, Christ does not saying there shall be 365,000 days(1000 years) apart between Church's resurrection and unbelievers' resurrection.

A first grade student at school would understand the school will be on the last day in the next day, know there will be no more class again tomorrow for the rest of summer.

These scriptures caused me left premill camp, because of these do not fit with premill doctrine. I rather follow what God's Word saying than what men saying - Col. 2:8.

Matt. 25:30 does not saying a lazy servant will spend in the outer darkness shall be last for a thousand years. No way that you can prove it, because Christ does not saying it.

Matt. 25:30 clearly telling us, a lazy servant shall send into outer darkness is an eternality punishment, no promise for a lazy servant shall be released out it.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Lacy,

My apologies for the hijacking.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

LOL!!!! Occasionally we carry "instant" too far.