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Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Lacy Evans, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Lacy,

    Why you opened topic - 'Millennial Exclusionists sound off!' in the first place?

    I have right to discuss with you, because you believe Matt. 25:30 saying a lazy servant shall be cast into outer darkness for 1,000 years.

    Matt. 25:30 does not saying 'a thousand years'.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  2. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    They fully expected (as most Jews and a few wise men from the East did) messiah to set up a literal Kingdom on Earth. (Jews and wise men still do today). This is irrefutable. How many times did his disciples ask him if he was going to set it up "now"? He never corrected their expectations, just their timing. The book of Revelation further corrects the timing and plainly gives us the duration.

    You must take the full counsel of Scripture, comparing spititual things with spiritual things.

    lacy
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    DPT,

    I will open a new thread about post-millenialism and we can debate there. that was not the topic of this one.

    lacy
     
  4. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    During Jesus' ministry on earth, Jews and Pharisees were looking forward kingdom establish on earth in physically. Pharisees asked Jesus, "When the kingdom of God should come". - Luke 21:20. They were expecting the kingdom of God shall be establish on earth - physical. Christ said to them, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU." Christ speak of spiritually things.

    Also, Jews demand King come down from heaven to set the kingdom in Jerusalem to take over Roman Empire and rule the world in physical. Not what God's plan. God's plan to send His Son to earth to saved people from hell. Christ already brought the gospel of kingdom to earth for the purpose is Calvary.

    Now, we are under the new covenant, not under the old covenant anymore, because of Calvary.

    Jews of today's Israel have wrong idea about the kingdom. They still looking forward for their Messiah to come earth and to set Jerusalem, the world's capitol. We already have the inherit of Abraham's promise - Gal. 3:29, and we shall dwell in New Jerusalem. Old Jerusalem shall be destroyed, also old earth destroyed. So, New Jerusalem shall be descend from heaven and land on new earth, and we shall dwell in there forever.

    Lacy, you saying, you start a new topic to discuss postmill. Well, you started discuss 'millennial' in the first place, that was not my fault. You started it. That why I do not agree with your interpreting of Matt. 25:30. It does not saying 'a thousand years'. You know that.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  5. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    DPT,

    Why can't you post this on the other thread? Do you feel left out because all the action is over here? I promise I will address these questions over there. Don't you trust me?

    lacy
     
  6. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    R. J.

    You say,

    I ask you a simple question, are you a servant of God?

    There is no difference between 'Gospel of the Kingdom' & 'Gospel of the Grace of God', both are synonymous.

    You say,

    No verse in the Bible supports your theory.

    Again, Luke 17:21 tells us, the kingdom of God is WITHIN US, it speaks of spiritual kingdom. Christ tells us, we must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven, OR cannot have eternal life.

    You say,

    Bible does not support your theory. 'Gospel of the Kingdom' is already preaching over the world since Early Church to present day, and will be continued through great tribulaiton till Christ comes. The gospel never changed since Pentacost day to today, and will always be the same through great tribulation till Christ comes.

    You say,

    Christ said, 'Ye', 'you' about 19 times in the context of Matthew chapter 24, obivously, it apply to us as followers. Pretrib saying Matthew chapter 24 is for Israel only. Funny, pretrib saying Matt. 24:36, & 42 speak to us as Church. Then, isn't the whole context of Matthew chapter 24 apply to us?

    By the way, 'Dividing' - 2 Tim. 2:15 does not mean it is cut into divided two parts, it means digging deeper or analyze.

    I agree with 2 Tim. 2:15 100% completely. It tells us, we are responsiblity to study Bible to digging deeper and intepreting correctly.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  7. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Does anybody know where I can find BAPTIST message board? A psychedelic, drug induced, hallucinatory message board is not what I signed up for.
     
  8. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Matthew is "further corrected" by John? I don't think so!
     
  9. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Lacy,

    You have yet to post even one single Scripture from any of the four gospels or any of the epistles that speaks of a millennial kingdom of any kind whatsoever. And of course there are no such scriptures. So why do you argue for such nonsense on a Baptist message board? And no less important, why do you believe the nonsense yourself?

    I freely agree that the doctrine of OSAS as held by most Baptists is in conflict not only with very many portions of the word of God, but is also in conflict with the teaching of the Church for 1500 years. However, the Biblical and historical doctrine of conditional security is in total agreement with both. All of the “warning passage” (and there are many of them) that trouble you and are in direct conflict with the teaching of OSAS are 100% in harmony with the Biblical and historical doctrine of conditional security. And the Biblical and historical doctrine of conditional security does not require that we create a modernistic man-made doctrine, but simply that we accept the truth of God’s word as it was understood for 1500 years before John Calvin came upon the scene and confused about 25% (give or take a few percentage points) of the body of Christ.
     
  10. Salinas

    Salinas New Member

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    DPT wrote:

    There is no difference between 'Gospel of the Kingdom' & 'Gospel of the Grace of God', both are synonymous.

    :confused:


    This is wrong because the gospel of grace (keyword means gift) is just that a gift you receive by faith.

    Gospel of kingdom of God/Heaven is inherited or lost by works.

    HUGE difference! [​IMG]
     
  11. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Gospel of Kingdom of God/Heaven is inherited or lost by works.


    ????????????

    What did Jesus tell Nicodemus???

    Unless you are born again you cannot inherit the what????

    Ye must be what?????
     
  12. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    The Gospel of the Kingdom is not inherited or entered into. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the good news of Jesus Christ that we are saved by grace through faith. And, by the way, Biblical faith is a whole lot more than intellectual ascent!

    (Hasn't anyone on this message board ever read the Bible or gotten past kindergarten?)
     
  13. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    CBTS, you don't preach free grace, you preach works and call it grace.

    Blackbird, one must be born again to become a child of God. Until you are a child of God, you can have no part in the inheritance. But you are not guaranteed that inheritance. Esau despised his birthright, and gave it up for some pottage.
     
  14. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Grace does NOT mean or equate with gift! Grace is the dynamic of God by which we are saved through faith, i.e., Biblical faith!

    1. Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
    2. For by it the men of old gained approval.
    3. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
    4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
    5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
    6. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
    7. By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
    8. By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
    9. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;
    10. for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
    11. By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised.
    12. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.
    13. All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
    14. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
    15. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.
    16. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
    17. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
    18. it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED."
    19. He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
    20. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come.
    21. By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
    22. By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
    23. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's edict.
    24. By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
    25. choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
    26. considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
    27. By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.
    28. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them.
    29. By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.
    30. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
    31. By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
    32. And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets,
    33. who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
    34. quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
    35. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
    36. and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
    37. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
    38. (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
    39. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
    40. because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
     
  15. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    No I do not preach "free grace," I preach "by grace through faith." And if that faith is not Biblical, but delusional, it won't do any good.
     
  16. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Mister Newman!

    One must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God!! Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." A birth from above! A birth that comes from Heaven and not of works or self righteousness! Jesus told the crowd around Him, "Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharasees you cannot enter the kingdom"---the righteousness to enter the Kingdom---comes from Above---from the Lord Jesus Christ--freely imparted to those who repent of their self righteousness and receive the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ!

    And again in verse 5, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

    You cannot enter the Kingdom of God until the Kingdom of God enters you! You cannot get into Heaven until Heaven gets into you!! And the word says, "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves(bear down on that)it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.(bear down on that truth) Ephesians 2: 8-9

    What I read in print from the Milineal Exclusionists is plain out heresy!

    Brother David
     
  17. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge New Member

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    Quote:

    The Gospel of the Kingdom is not inherited or entered into. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the good news of Jesus Christ that we are saved by grace through faith. And, by the way, Biblical faith is a whole lot more than intellectual ascent!

    (Hasn't anyone on this message board ever read the Bible or gotten past kindergarten?)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unquote.

    I read the Bible one time, but it NEVER stated, taught, or implied, that the gospel of the kingdom was the REVELATION of the gospel of the grace of God, which was given unto Paul the apostle.

    There are FOUR GOSPELS mentioned in different terms within the Holy Bible, other than those written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; excluding the GOSPEL OF ETERNAL LAND INHERITANCE preached by Caleb and Joshua (Heb.4, Mum.13-14), and the GOSPEL OF ABRAHAMIC BLESSING (Gal.3,Gen.12, Acts 3)

    The 12 apostles DID NOT preach the gospel of the grace of God UNTIL Paul "communicated" it UNTO THEM, although they preached the gospel of the kingdom (Matt.10, Gal.2). It DID NOT contain the elements of the gospel of the grace of God. (Luke 18, 1 Cor.15) They didn't KNOW, UNDERSTAND, OR BELIEVE the basics elements of the PAULINE GOSPEL until after the resurrection. (Matt.28, Mark 16, Luke 24, John 20-21)

    John the Baptist CERTAINLY did not preach the gospel of grace, and NEITHER did the Lord Jesus, although they BOTH preached the gospel of the kingdom. (Matt.3,4) His explanation of the simplest of elements of the gospel of the grace of God was rejected and NOT BELIEVED. (Matt.16)

    They certainly didn't preach anything they didn't know or believe that was to occur.

    Yes, I read the Bible one time. It was after kindergarten, I think.
     
  18. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Quick! Somebody wake me up! I am having nightmares about the Baptist Board. :eek:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Quick! Somebody wake me up! I am having nightmares about the Baptist Board. :eek: Help! They are getting worse by the minute!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Sorry Craig,

    This is the strangest dream I think I have ever had outside of the 1970's :eek: I am afraid to wake up because what I am reading on the BB may really be what is being taught in our churches.

    Bro Tony
     
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